i don't like chang! but we talked abut it for a lon time afore we did this. i stil can phone her wen i wana. but her cant alwais cal bak i tol her i guna liv in her waitin rum but 'dat's not ok' HAHA! her alwais says that one! i tol her sometime her oughta just say 'NO' and her say 'NO, i don't say no!' HAHA her hasa sense of humur

i tried to throw a pilow at her sprinkler system. and then i jumped on the sofa and wanded to jump over and grab the sprinkler thing outa the celing. but her grabbed me and wudn't let me.

sumtims i forget the body is 44 and 5'6" and about 180 lbs! imagine my T at 5'2" and 56 yrs. old (i think) tryin to stop me! HAHA!

i supose it were a sight to see!

it's hard to live in an old body

samy

quote:

sumtims i forget the body is 44 and 5'6" and about 180 lbs! imagine my T at 5'2" and 56 yrs. old (i think) tryin to stop me! HAHA!

ROFL! THAT'S a hilarious image. I love it. LOL!

It sounds like you are handling the change pretty good, though I am sure it is not easy. Change is very hard especially when it comes to something that has been so helpful and significant in our lives.

I just want to let you know I am thinking of all of you.

JM

Hey Samy,
My name is Charlotte and it's nice to meet you. I have only been on this forum for about a month. I enjoy reading all the information I can get about others that are in transference with their T's. i have made many new friends here! If you don't mind me asking, how long have you been in therapy, and are you ready to give it up or was it your T's decision. I hope I never have to reach that bridge...but I guess we all will...or it wasn't doing any good anyway right?...but I hope it's a long time for me...It's my favorite hour of the week...sorta like being addicted to a TV show I guess...I don't let anything get in the way of my sessons. I'm glad you seem to be getting along okay. Good Luck to you my new friend!

JM, what's up new in your life my friend? I had a pretty bad day on Wednesday... I was so anxious and stressed...it really got to me! I felt like my head was about to crawl off my body...I ended up having to take a nerve pill at work...I felt like I was gonna break over...but when I heard my T's voice on the other end of that phone, it was like a fix for an addict... I melted and felt like I could do anything...He usually has his secretary call back, but i am glad he did...it made me feel even closer to him than before ...is that a good thing??

Well, everyone,
I have alot of paperwork to do before bed...so talk to you soon...Charlotte

hi charolette! nice to meets you. in case you not figured it out, i am in a DID system, that is 'dissociative identity disorder'. that means there lots us in this body. the body is 44 but i is 14.

we is all goin to school. we used to talk our T in the mornin, and then on one night a week. we cant talk in the mornin none cuz we is going to school.

there is lots going on always for us. so like one mornin we would give like a catch up and whatever to talk abut on the evenin session.

it has to hapen, like we not talk in the mornin, because of our school.

school is borin for me HAHA

i don't always type proper cuz i have OCD. but i know how to actuali. i have an IQ of 165. i tuked a test on that. so i very smart. i mostly good with numbers. part of that is me OCD thing. i like to do Sudoku. i lik the feel of sand. i like the beach. and i like to climb trees HAHA onli can't no more drats!

samy
p.s. it's samantha lyn but mostly i is called samy with a 'y' ok.

Hi Dude...I think your kool!!...Most people with those kind of things going on would be in denial up to their hipbones...Good for you that you can straight out tell somebody what going on!!..Don't worry about typing correctly...I'm used to it...I'm a teacher in High School..I see it everyday...to tell you the truth...I'm not to keen on typing either...but it is nice to talk to you, keep in touch my new buddy!! Gotta run..Charlotte

Do you ever have a "bad transference day" when you think of your transference object way more than you had been for awhile? I'm having one of those days. I looked at his house on Google Streetview and then read about a marathon he ran in recently. Then I felt sad that he is living his life without me, like why am I not with him?

I am upset and annoyed with myself.

I can guess I am using it to avoid something (like work...) but I am just so frustrated!

Hi SprintingGal

Absolutely. I’ve done the same thing (Googling street view), and I like how you put it “feeling sad that he (she) is living his (her) life without me.” That is exactly how I feel. My T runs too and I often imagine her and me running together. It is a part of her I strongly desire to have, but I know that I can’t. The feelings are so conflictual, but once again running to the safety of their professional boundaries is so very secure and exactly where we need to be.

I hope it helps to know you are understood and not alone and that you are feeling less annoyed with yourself. It is part of the territory for some clients. Don’t be too hard on yourself.

You also said something very insightful when you mentioned that you are using it to avoid something. Some of us have realized that to be true. Some of us recognize that transference (which is feeling the past in the present) seems to stir up whenever we are about to traverse into something very big from the deep abyss of our past. You will learn to work with it, but until then, take it easy on yourself. This is ok. Think roller coaster... and sometimes Demon Drop.

BTW: When is your next appointment with your T? We all sort of keep a running countdown between appointments.

Oh yeah, I’ve been meaning to ask the obvious question per your screen name: Do you run? I love to run although I do not do so as much as I would like to or as well as I used to when I was in high school.

Talk to you later,
JM

Hi JM,

Thank you for concuring with that feeling about him living his life without me. Here I thought I was nuts! This is the totally out of reach Dr. X, not my T (whom I am seeing Thursday). I hate the boundaries. They don't help me feel secure; they just annoy me and I wish they were not there. I don't want any boundaries. One thing I have been thinking a lot is "why did I have to meet him like this?" When I know darn well that I could have ONLY met him like this. I'm just so, so, so frustrated.

I just started running myself a few months ago; I can't go that far for too long yet but I am getting there. I really want to run a 5K in the next few months. I probably wouldn't have ever started if I didn't know he ran as well but I do enjoy it. I had no healthful modeling at home. Recreation was eating and watching tv so I am trying to take pieces from here and there to create my own healthy life. I used to be very overweight.

Well, I have felt like my sessions with my T have hit the wall and we aren't making any progress. It might be that I am just exhausted from the events of the last six months and can't make any progress. So I doubt a big breakthrough is in the works. I do have a meeting with my interim supervisor in an hour and that always makes me really anxious!

SprintingGal

I’m sorry I went right into “transference means T” mode. I did not mean to forget Dr. X. How could I forget Dr X?? Forgive me?

Yeah so of course the whole “secure in the boundaries” thing is a pretty useless statement. Sorry for that too. But what remains the same is that you are not nuts and what you are going through is completely understandable. Here you are normal and among friends.

quote:

Well, I have felt like my sessions with my T have hit the wall and we aren't making any progress. It might be that I am just exhausted from the events of the last six months and can't make any progress.

I hate that for you and I really hope that changes for you too.

Would you like a laugh?? I can barely run a 1/4 mile at a time right now w/o getting out of breath, but I am doing better than I was a year ago. And as for creating your own healthy lifestyle, transference works as a good motivator for that too. (But then we really need to do it for oursleves)

JM

What didn’t I miss while my T was out of town for 3 weeks?? Waiting in “call back limbo.” (a phrase I stole from somewhere)

I am trying to get in to see my T for an extra appointment this week. (trying to make up for lost time) She offered one for tomorrow afternoon, but I declined due to a previously scheduled event, and then upon hanging up I immediately went into hyper ventilating and panic attack! After hours of needless suffering I finally summoned up the courage to call her AGAIN to see if that appointment is still available. But I am now afraid that she won’t get that message in time to call me back tonight. –Just like old times!(insert emoticon beating self in head here)

jm:

2 more days....ONLY....lol

LOL!
Hey AJB!
Actually I just spoke to my T and she has that extra appointment available for me tomorrow afternoon, so I get to see my T tomorrow AND Wednesday!

Do I hear applause?? Is everyone shouting with relief; “Finally we get to stop hearing from JM “My T is gone, I haven’t seen my T is sooo long. Wha!…” LOL! Actually you’ve all been great and thank you for helping me get through this. Hopefully I wasn’t too obnoxious. Even so, I am sure I will find plenty things to post on in the near future.

i am so happy for you and SOOOOOOOOOOOO jealous too. i'm getting anxious about my upcoming session too. i can't wait to get there, but then when it's time, i start worrying that he may schedule my next appt in 3 or 4 weeks. crazy, huh? and what in the world will we talk about this time? oh well, i have TWO more days to obsess about it. hope you have a good one tomorrow. let us know.

JM,
That is SO awesome! You did it, you made it through. You should be so proud of yourself. And you weren't even close to obnoxious! Let us know how it goes!

AJB,
I hate when you start worrying about the end of the session before you get there, but I totally understand. Happens all the time! And its ok for you to talk to your T about coming weekly (as long as finances aren't a problem, I'm not sure if you were on that schedule for that reason, or that's how often your T recommended coming in.) In either case,you sound pretty normal to me. At least, for around here.

AG

Hi All,
I bit the bullet and took Samy's excellent, insightful and intelligent suggestion to start a new transference topic as this one is getting a little unwieldy. So this discussion will be continued in

Transference Part II

I also put a backtrack link in the new topic.

See ya there!

AG

Hi AG and JM and others,

just thought I would write in to let you know how I am travelling. I found myself with friends and someone I am working with as a mentor. As we spent the day together, I became aware of an inner state of tension, as my mentor was paying attention to another friend. The others began to eat lunch and I separated myself off to experience my feelings - becoming stronger each moment. I realised that I really needed my mentor to come. My friend who was there with me, supporting me, said did I want her to get the mentor. I immediately recognised the moment was about attachment and declined. In the needing, I was able to experience and release the held body memory of needing and not getting - through a rather loud involuntary sound. Felt good to me! As the waves subsided, my mentor entered the room and my friend left. When asked my mentor said to me that she didnt feel to come into the room until the actual time that she did. The circumstances were in Divine timing. We talked and moved on with the day.

There may be more energy to be released on this trauma, however, for me this now means that there is less in the way in my friendship with my T. I spent the evening with her and her family the other night, which was very relaxing. It is interesting how I had chosen a T, who has similarities to my mother/parents, including in some ways the way she relates to her partner. The universe works in mysterious ways to provide reflections of who we are.

I am still aware of the presence of sexual energy in thinking about my T and at times being in her presence. I believe this is part of the next layer of "stuff" wanting to move so that the life force that has been repressed can be allowed its right of passage - ie energy for living and loving and full expression of who I am in the world. I look forward to a weekend womens workshop being conducted by my T, to see what will emerge from the deep dark ravines of the Goddess.

May the Truth be with You and speak through you.

Em.

quote:

I spent the evening with her and her family the other night, which was very relaxing. It is interesting how I had chosen a T, who has similarities to my mother/parents, including in some ways the way she relates to her partner.

is your mentor a different person than your T?
are you saying you spent an evening at your T's house?

just wanting some clarifying before i reply...

antoni

Em,
I'm sorry it's taken so long to respond to this post, but I have been really struggling with what to say. I want to be really supportive to what you're going through but I also want to be really honest with you. You sound very grounded and like you are staying very aware and present as you work through this, which is no small thing.

But some of the things that you said I found troubling. I may be projecting my own problems and struggles on to you so take this with a grain of salt. There's a good chance that I'm just not as far along my healing path as you are on yours. But you speaking of feeling tension because you're mentor was talking to someone else and how simply it was resolved makes me worry that there is more going on than you are looking at and being conscious of, and doing this in an environment where the boundaries are not clear feels really dangerous to me. Then you said

quote:

It is interesting how I had chosen a T, who has similarities to my mother/parents, including in some ways the way she relates to her partner.

and that sounded really scary. My parents and how they related are part of what has left me so damaged. The very troubles that took me to therapy in the first place were because I was finding people like my parents and unconsciously trying to fix what went wrong the first time through. The fact that you see similarities to your mother/parents makes me worry that there is a serious amount of countertransference going on with your T so that instead of working through these feelings, you are actually engaging in the same patterned dance that you've always experienced. I am really sorry if this seems too harsh, I really am speaking up out of concern for you.

And I know I could be wildly far of the mark but I felt like it would be wrong not to speak up. Thank you for coming and talking about what your experience is. I really appreciate your openess. I hope I haven't chased you off.

AG

is your mentor a different person than your T?
are you saying you spent an evening at your T's house?

just wanting some clarifying before i reply...

antoni[/QUOTE]

Hi Antoni. The mentor I speak about is a new friend who is teaching me some new skills. My T is not the same person. And I did spend an informal evening with my T, at her home.

Hi AG,

I appreciate your concern. I was holding my own space in that interaction with my mentor. and received good advice from this forum on what it was I was dealing with - which helped me to hold my space.

Yeah, sure, there is a lot more being uncovered and this is not just a simple release. It is one of the many layers in releasing myself from the chains that bind. I trust the Divine to present the opportunities to bring me closer to my true nature and release me from the past patterns of defence and entrenched defensive behaviour.

I hear your concern about countertransference and can only bring myself back to trust the process of life - which is in essence a therapeutic experience when I learn from my mistakes and celebrate my Truth. You must remember that we are no longer in a one to one therapeutic relationship. We are travelling together at this point into places that feel uncertain - and I trust myself to know and when I dont, I trust myself to find my way through and find the words and the questions to ask.

Here I am explaining myself and my experience of life and trying to justify something that is outside of "normal" procedure. This is my whole life - being on the outside of normal - trying to look and be normal, instead of the truth of who I am and what I feel. I feel I have a greater chance to find myself in this way than through other ways on offer that I know of. It is a risk and an adventure, and the people I am with are far more willing to turn their tools on themselves and to grow and learn with me and from me. That feels like the Truth to me.

Perhaps I am on a dangerous tangent - and so be it. However, I am willing to take the risk to feel alive and deeply connected and conscious.

Thank you for speaking up and providing me with an opportunity for reflection and the chance to hold my own sacred point of view in the face of a different opinion, and to speak my Truth - the things I know from my experience - often wildly different from others. However, I have found over time that I can appreciate and really value both the unity and the diversity I share with other people as we relate with our Truth in the moment. I feel connected and yet can appreciate my own talents and potential. At those times, I believe peace is possible.

Speak your Truth so that you may hear.
Em

Em,
Thank you for that very generous reply, I am glad that you were able to see that I was coming from a place of concern. But its obvious that you are very aware of all the issues and are prepared to deal with them.I think that the boundaries have been SO important to me in dealing with these issues that I'm assuming that has to be true for everyone and I know better than that.I really do believe that our healing path is as unique as we are. We can understand some of the places, experiences and feelings of other people enough to lend support but no two people will go exactly the same way to get better.

And your willingness to risk in order to feel alive and deeply connected and conscious is at the heart of living a life worth living.

And I don't believe in "normal" procedures. And I wouldn't want you feeling like you have to conform to some ideal of mine. I've done my fair share of heading off in directions that other people have looked at askance and many times I've done the right thing despite how it looked to others. You are very clear about what you're doing, what the dangers and issues are and what resources you have to deal with them. It is impossible to do more than that.

Thank you for allowing me to speak and better yet, hearing me. I wish you blessings and peace on your journey. And it would be good to continue hearing about how you're doing. You provide a perspective very different from mine which is always a good thing. Take care.

AG

Hello,

I've never used a site like this and am very nervous about this whole idea but here it goes...

I have been in marriage counseling for 2 years now. My therapist has done a wonderful job at keeping my marriage together. Without her, I don't believe I would still be married today. The problem is that every time my wife and I go to counseling sessions, the stronger my feeling get for my therapist. I have become completely infatuated with her. I can't stop thinking about her. I know she is happily married and loves her job. She would NEVER jeopardize her career or marriage for me. Since I know this to be true, I have become extremely heart broken. I'm pretty sure that my T and my wife have no idea about my feelings. It's hard to keep this kind of stuff inside.

There is no way I could tell my T how I feel. She would surely tell my wife and then their would be a huge problem. I'm not sure if she would handle the situation or refer us to someone else. I think I should suggest to wife that we get a new marriage counselor. But I would hate not seeing her anymore. I guess eventually I would get over it.

I hope you can help me.

Thanks.

Thank Dragonfly and June,

To answer some of your questions Dragonfly, what I know about my T's credentials is that she is a licenesed marriage and family therapist. I have had private sessions with her before, so I could meet with her alone. You may be right that she wouldn't tell my wife but my fear is that if I told her how I feel and she did decide to refer my wife and I to someone else, I may have to explain why. OR, she may come up with a more general reason to explain to my wife to make things easier.

I have read that marriage therapists are not the best when it comes to transference because they don't necessarily believe in the idea. Thoughts anyone?

June, you may be right about the confidential thing. I didn't think about that. I'm just not sure how it would work sine she also has to help with my marital issues. It depends on how she prioritizes the issues I guess.

Just knowing that somebody has read my post has made feel better. Keeping all this inside has been hard. I read a lot of this thread a month ago and reading it made me feel better for a short time. I hope that I can get over this soon. It's just that every time I go, all the feelings come back. Weeks go by, I start to feel better then it's time to see her again. And every time, the feelings come back even stronger. I suppose telling her my feelings before I try to leave makes sense, I just don't know if I can bring myself to do it.

But thank you both for your thoughts. They are greatly appreciated! I will take this info. to heart.

Hi STRAHP,
I want to say hello and welcome to the forum, I'm glad you posted. I was in a very similar position. My husband and I started seeing his therapist for marital counseling and while working with him together I developed a strong attachment. I did go to him and tell him how I felt (terrified I would be sent away) but instead it led to my working with him individually. I was very blessed in that I have a very understanding husband, so I was very open with him and told him how I felt right after I told our T and we were all able to discuss it when we needed to. This worked for us because my T is a boundary ninja and did a really good job keeping the relationship safe and theraputic and I think I did a pretty good job, despite how intense and painful it could get, of keeping my focus on healing. But examining the relationship between us and my feelings for my T were key to my healing. It turned out really well. My marriage is in very good shape and we've left both marital and individual counseling. I would write more but I'm fighting with a bad breathing problem and bronchitis at the moment and am not firing on all cylinders.

But I do want you to know there's hope. I have done a lot of posting, if you look especially at the Personal Stories section that's where I start most of my threads. Hopefully reading some of that might help in the meantime. I'm planning on getting back on the board as soon as I'm well. I just wanted to say hi.

AG

SBRAHP

I just wanted to welcome you to the boards. I don't have any great advice for you, but I hope you stick around. I'm sorry you are in such a difficult bind.

transference is so hard to figure out. what part one SHOULD allow themself to have...what is 'too much', unhealthy, unnatural....


seems this topic makes all the t's i have seen nervous...me too, i guess, as we have never talked about it directly.

some dependence and attachment is necessary, but it has to be RECEIVED warmly. and that is what is so hard for them, i guess. to draw the line on what is healthy warmth, and too much. all i can say is, there has NEVER been enough warmth emitted towards me...i am sure this points to my inability to SEE warmth, to recognize it, to NOT dismiss it as manipulation, or insincere bulls**t. i hate to say, but, what i have read of carl rogers, i agree, but, i just think i wouldn't accept it as REAL...and to what i would need to pass my 'lie detector test' of sincere caring?? i guess, too much....herein lies the problem.

a toughie, for sure. but, i am looking for a mommy and a daddy...got a lover.

jill

My T said my emotional volume setting is to high, meaning I can't hear or see what I do have, this comes from having to stretch myself at to young an age to try and find any warmth as a baby and onwards and I dont recognise normal levels of caring.

some may say thats put the onus on me, but its not like that, its true, my emotional hearing level is set very high and I reject anything that doesn't scream at me, trying to accept a normal level of caring causes to much anxiety for me I can't stay still to let myself have it.

Thanks for all the responses. It is comforting to know that I'm not alone. I guess my big question is, will this go away? I'm hoping that the frequency of my sessions will decline, and as it does, I will slowly get over this. Of coarse, every time I go back, it will be another hurdle.

Ugh, I thought by getting married, I would be done with these types of feelings (feelings of heart break). I've been married for 8 years and I haven't felt like this for about 12 years. I'm trying to convince myself that I still love my wife. I've done a good job of making my T and my wife believe that I still love my wife. I'm putting on a great act. Every time I look at my wife, I think about my misplaced feelings. I wish I could redirect the feelings I have for my T towards my wife.

Thanks again.

I don't knonw if the feelings go away or if they just change in intensity and the type of feeling. For example I have had erotic transference for my P and it happens when I am really anxious and panicking. By him being reassuring and not running away from me and my feelings those feelings have changed and lessened but still rear their ugly head when I am panicking.

quote:

I've done a good job of making my T and my wife believe that I still love my wife. I'm putting on a great act.

One thing I would say is try and be as honest as possible about your feelings with your T, they cannot help you if they don't know how you really feel.

My feelings for my P never changed the way I felt about my husband, he has stood by me forever even when the going has been really rough.

I also think that transference is probably the hardest thing I have ever had to deal with, the longing and the heartache, but I am hoping that there will be healing and a huge lessening in my anxiety levels.

Hope any of that helps, feel free to come and chat about it anytime, sometimes it helps to know you aren't the only one going through this.

There is no easy answer when it comes to dealing with transference. It is powerful and painful and can be very helpful or hurtful depending on how it is handled. Not all T's will address it, not all T's can handle it, and judging from a lot of discussions just on this board, very few T's seem to be able to handle it well. After reading many of the discussions about transference here on MyShrink I decided to bring up the subject with my T by first just asking what transference was. This was the only way I could think of to bring it up without tipping my hand about my feelings for her. Her answer helped me to judge whether or not it would be safe to tell her more. Maybe this is the tacit you could try with your marriage T. Doing this in a session without your wife would probably be easier I would think.

Until therapy I had strong transference to certain women I worked with over the yrs...now since therapy I no longer have such transference. I use to see a woman at work,something about the way she looked would trigger the need to be taken care off and I would almost stalk them

quote:

guidetopsychology.com

Thats a good bit on info June. Thanks!

quote:

But with my old T,once transference got its feet under the table with her,all of it stopped with other people.why is that? anyone know? how come I'm not like it with lots of people ,but only have one person that i have these feelings with?It is a bit odd really.......Hmmmmmmmm

I think because when it was with other people outside therapy, it was mainly fantasy, in our heads, with a therapist we get to voice the feelings and get REAL responses and caring.

Hi I am new to this site, I actually found it by googling transference. lol. I've read through almost every single post on here regarding it. I found great comfort in the things said.

I've been having sexual thoughts about my therapist recently, who is a female by the way. And it's really been creeping me out. I do find her to be very attractive. But then again, I think everyone is attractive except me. I have a extreme self-hatred and I am extremely overweight. I often feel uncomfortable in her presence or people in general simply because I feel so ugly. I don't want to have sexual thoughts about her. I must admit I do struggle with my sexuality, so that makes it even worse and more confusing. I've been only seeing her for about 5 months twice a week. I've had a lot of therapist come in and go throughout my time in counseling. There is so many questions I want to ask and so much I want to say, but I am just so overwhelmed by all of it I guess. I don't have any friends. And the only social contact I have with the world besides my co-workers, who don't really talk with me is my therapist. The dynamics have definitely been interesting.

I really do like my therapist a lot. I just wish I understood why I have the feelings I do and why now? Even though I've had counselors in the past, I've only had one that I got really close too. She moved away though, I don't think I've ever grieved that loss. I think I was afraid to at the time, I think I dunno. I often think about her alot, and the time I had with her and I find myself filled with longing and emptiness at the same time. I wonder will I ever find someone who's just like her? It's very hard to think about. I miss her deeply.

These relationship attachments make me scared and I am not sure what's normal anymore. I mean the current therapist I am seeing right now, she is very sweet like the therapist that moved away that I was close to but at times something just seems to be missing. I feel guilty for my unsettledness at times. I know that my current therapist, will never be my old one and I shouldn't compare the too. But I often do.

I am just really scared of the place I am with my therapist. You see, there are a lot of things that, ugh I dunno. There's just so much inside of me that I've been thinking about and obsessing about and I had no one to talk about it with not even my therapist because she went away for the holiday season for 2 weeks and didn't even let me know that she was going away until 2 days before she left. I didn't think it would be big deal, but after she was gone, I was all alone.

I have no one. No friends. My family is in a completely different state, and at that we aren't close and practically don't talk. I hate to say it, but it's true right now...all I have is her and it stinks. Because she is so inconsistent and undependable. Heck, I can't even call her and know that she will return my phone call.

I met with her yesterday for the first time since she's been back, and here I was anxious and eager to see her because I missed her. I had all these things inside of dying to see her and share. Needless to say the session did not go as plan. And there is always more on my heart and going on in my life than what our hour allows to talk about. I just feel so darn stuck and frustrated.

I know that she cares deeply for me. And at our last session before the holidays she actually said "I love you", while hugging me. And I've never heard a therapist say that before to me. So I was a little surprised and I asked her to say it again and she did. I wanted to say it back so badly, but I was scared. I was scared to let her get close to me or whatever. Even when she hugs me at the end of our sessions, I so badly want to rest in her embrace, but I am so scared. And I can remember when we first started counseling, I so desperately wanted her to be close, touch and hug me and she didn't and I was angry. But now she does show those gestures quite freely, and I literally freeze and tense up. How come the very thing I want and crave, I fear or don't know how to enjoy it. She scares me and yet at the same time makes me feel all warm and fuzzy.

I don't know what's going on. I know that for the first time in therapy I am beginning to talk about some really important traumatic things in depth, unlike before in previous therapies. So maybe that's it. I've also have had a really tough year, and just tough life time and have had several people just dropp out of my life without any clue as to why. There is just so much going on and on top of this these weird feelings toward my therapist. Combined with confusion on my sexuality and religious beliefs. I feel so lost and alone.

Can anyone else relate or understand. I am so sorry that I wrote so much. I just feel so vulnerable and alone.

Hi PP
I am sorry that you are alone especially with all the holidays at this time of the year. I don't know too much about transference but i imagine your T saying she loves you would certainly add to the confusion. What i do know is that transference is irrespective of sexual orientation and doesn't seem to care about thinks like male and female.

It is also hard and painful to go through and i just wanted to say that i do understand and relate and that you are not alone.

Pan

Saw my T today in a session. I always leave feeling so good and happy. That feeling usually tapers off into feelings of heartbreak as the day goes by. The feeling is starting to turn right now and I just want to feel happy and good. This definitely sucks.

Oh
I can sooo relate to that statement StuckBetweenRock and HardPlace. I just hate it the day after my session. I have to wait 2 weeks between session

Hi Passionate Pursuit, and welcome to the forum! I found this site by googling "transference" too. And I read all the threads on it before jumping in as well. So I can really relate.

I'm sorry you are feeling so much pain and confusion over the feelings you are having for your therapist, and about therapy in general. A lot of us have been there, done that, and have the T-shirt (well, actually, I don't have the T-shirt yet, but I'm working on it ). I recognize a LOT of my thoughts and feelings in what you described, so no, you are definitely not alone.

Have you been able to talk about the feelings you are having with your current T? If not, do you think she would be open to it?

I'm glad you found this site and hope you can draw some encouragement and hope from us, no matter where we are on our therapy journies.

Take care,
SG

IrishRose,

Welcome to the forum! It's good to have you here.

Wow, you have really been through the ringer with your T huh? I read your story and I can't help but think that there is definite counter-transference going on. It sounds like T has perhaps crossed some boundaries and then either regretted it or I don't know what. I am shocked that she didn't tell you of her impending lengthy absence until right before. I don't ever think that is a good idea, but I know different T's handle it differently. I'm wondering if perhaps she was angry that you didn't reach out and call her while she was gone? Was she angry with you on some level because she didn't feel needed? I don't know.

I was happy to read that she allowed you to come back and was hoping that meant things had been worked out and were better but I see there are continued issues. I think it is critical to have a very honest and open discussion with your T about this because it seems like it could lead to you getting hurt very badly. Whether she will admit that there are issues or not is another story, but I think it is worth bringing up.

Good luck to you and keep us posted!

IrishRose,

She is the professional and it is HER job to maintain the boundaries in the relationship. I can understand being afraid to address the issues because you fear losing her, but it sounds like you fear losing her either way.

Hello group. I have posted previously about my intense transference with my marriage counselor and you all have been so supportive. Thank you!

My wife and I have an appointement on Mon. w/ our marriage counselor. I still have not expressed my feelings and don't plan on doing so anytime soon. I have become so heart broken over this. I feel like I can not love my wife as long as I have such intense feelings for somebody else. I have also lost a grip on the dividing line between fantasy and reality. I used to know that I had no future with my T. Now I want to convince her to leave her happy marriage and risk the job she loves to be with me. I know this is not possible. But the thought of her not in my life is too painful.

I can't stand this amount of hurt. But I also do NOT want to let go of my transference feelings for my T. I'm in a really bad place right now.

I have seen a T individually. I've only been once, just a few weeks ago. I think I'll make another appointment with him as soon as I can. Although, during the session I found him hard to connect with. He made good points but took a very long time to make them. He wants me to concentrate on giving my wife more attention. Which I have been doing. Maybe it's time for a follow up. Thanks so much June.

Has anybody ever found closure or relief from telling there T about their transference problems? I'm considering it but want to avoid any unnecessary embarrassment.

Thanks.

SBRHP,
The answer is yes, but I do not have time to elaborate as I am up against a really tight deadline at work. But if you look for threads I started in Stories and Personal Accounts About Therapy you can get a pretty good account of what it was like right through the end. (translation: I run on at that mouth. ).

I know it's not everyone's experience, but my talking to my T about my attraction to him was actually the key that opened our work together, which went so well that I made the decision to stop going to therapy. But I know how scary it can be! Sorry this is so brief!

AG

Hi, SBR (can I shorten? ) I just wanted to say hi, because I'm dealing with intense transference with my T for a couple of years now, and we are just now moving into marriage counseling- now adding my husband to the mix. It's really agony, isn't it. I'm sorry you are in so much pain, but it does no make you wrong or bad, it's a normal reaction to feeling understood and accepted by your therapist. If we are in a problematic marriage (which I assume like myself you must be or your wouldn't be getting marriage counseling... good for you-) then it makes the reaction and pain that you feel much worse, in my opinion. My personal belief is that if your therapist is a good one who understands transference issues and works within that framework, and also has good enough boundaries (will not use you to gratify her needs in any way, but will keep the relationship professional, which will be *very* painful for you to endure) then you could ask for an individual session with her, and tell her of your struggles. Doing this would probably be the most difficult thing you have ever done... I'm sure you know all the reasons/and risks involved in such a confession of love. However- I want to comment on one thing:

quote:

I have become so heart broken over this. I feel like I can not love my wife as long as I have such intense feelings for somebody else. I have also lost a grip on the dividing line between fantasy and reality. I used to know that I had no future with my T. Now I want to convince her to leave her happy marriage and risk the job she loves to be with me. I know this is not possible. But the thought of her not in my life is too painful.

Having these feelings does not mean neccessarily that you do not love your wife. It is just an agonizing thing that must be dealt with or you will potentially not get anywhere in therapy. As people on here like to say, there is no way through this trial of fire but straight through- does it feel like you can't go back? Then plow straight through, and endure the pain as best you can. My therapist knows about my feelings for him. My husband does too, although to protect my h's feelings I havn't revealed the more romantic side of it, and have just told him that it feels like I want my T to "be my father," that I get angry and can't trust him, that I alternately love him, and that the feelings are extremely painful and confusing in dealing with. You probably have some idea that your feelings are related back to your childhood, old pain, and possibly your current needs that are not getting met in your marriage. And you will feel very attached to your T because she is providing you with some of those unmet needs. It's like falling in love, or a deep but unrequited love- a most painful thing, but worse somehow in terms of how it feels in therapy. You are not alone- it is heartbreaking, literally. Try to allow all your feelings around your T, and not reject them as "bad." Try to find a way to tell your T, and ask her for advice on if you should tell your wife. It is clear that you want to be able love your wife, from your posts, and that shows what a good man you are! So do not worry or be afraid, what you are experiencing is quite normal, albeit extremely painful.
I hope some if this can help- it's a bit all over the place. Please feel free to ask any questions...I'm not around much, these days, but I will check back in a few days, if not later today.

In the meantime- peace to you,

Blackbird

Ps- This link may help you- it did me when I was at the stage you are at- if not just disregard it:

http://www.guidetopsychology.c...tic_transference.htm

Oh I forgot to add, that the only thing I personally disagree with in this articles, is that the feelings aren't real. I think the feelings are real, because I personally believe that receiving (vulnerable/painful) love is real and powerful- and that in itself has been painful for me- in realizing that my receiving or vulnerable love for my T is not always completely accepted or valued as love. Still one I need to work out somehow with my own T, but that's a pretty deep place, I don't know...

Hello, new here myself. And like so many others, I ended up finding this site while reading up on transference. I apologize in advance for the length--I like to write, but obviously struggle with editing.

I'm 30 and in therapy after a very traumatic year related to my husband being diagnosed with a sleep condition (details aren't PG). I have limited prior experience with therapy, including a few weeks at 10-years-old for nightmares and some family sessions in middle school. Hubby and I are both seeing the same T (a clinical psychologist and MFC who incorporates a spiritual dynamic), but individually, and for mostly unrelated problems, other than his condition being the initial trigger. I know that can sometimes be problematic, but hubby has been seeing him for about a year and I have been for about five months and it has been a positive experience so far, especially helping T understand me better through the lens of the partner I choose to be with.

My background, which I've spent years saying "so what?" about rather than deal with, is a lot of paternal neglect, I guess. I pretty much never had a connection with my mom, due to several factors: post-partum depression when I was a baby; her breakdown when I was a young child when my older sisters were abused by her boyfriend (which I guess I witnessed, but have no memory of) and moving to their Dad's; a series of unstable relationships; working her butt off as a single mom; and general instability. I think there was more than a decade of my childhood during which our only physical contact was me getting in between her fights with my older sister or her boyfriend. She was emotionally abusive, physically attacked those who fought back, would kick her children (including me) and boyfriends out of the house regularly for minor arguments and had her older children (again including me) practically raise the younger ones, who are 10, 11 and 16-years younger than me. Anyway, blah blah, big deal. Again, so what? It's how I grew up, it seems normal to me and I am able to invent all sorts of excuses for her behavior that make me able to have a relationship with her today. This information is just to avoid the suggestion that I see a female therapist, because I am conscious of pretty negative transference toward most women in authority and can't get past step one unless they are "attached" to a male I trust (like talking to my pastor and his wife at the same time).

In the case of my Dad, due to my Mom's instability, he was in and out of the house until I was eight and then out for good. He was never affectionate, but was very engaged (playing sports, video games, helping with homework), and then remarried and I was told my step-mom was "done raising her children" and he mostly checked out of my life and into hers, which continues to this day. I don't think I really recognized my relationship with either parent as that strange until having my daughter (2.5-years-old) allowed me to experience the other side of parental affection.

T knows all of this information through our conversations and me sharing extensive journaling (about 100 pages, single spaced since I started counseling). Anyway, since middle school, I have struggled with transference...and unfortunately was usually conscious of it. I tend to look for supportive, older males to fulfill a fatherly role. However, shame about being needy/dependent (probably defending against abandonment) and guilt over replacing my parents instead of being willing to confront/risk trusting them again usually keeps me from indulging in building trusting relationships with others when this paternal dynamic is present. The exception would be allowing a mentoring relationship (as I have had with a few teachers). I basically feel like I am "cheating on" my parents (and my husband, God) for seeking out other people to depend on.

The result is usually I starve the neglected/needy part of me into submission by not allowing it to connect with anyone (T has noticed I easily dissociate this part and also anger), otherwise I can't stand myself. However, my T is very good at building trust/safety with me, so that didn't work this time. My instinctual reaction to building a deep trust with him so quickly was emotional self-abuse, which grew into some pretty scary self-destructive inclinations (been there before during two previous extended depressive periods in high school and at Stanford, but this was the worst). I think I'm starting to come through it now, thank God!

I'm assuming my T must know I'm struggling with transference with him, because I have discussed my abandonment issues, fears of rejection, irrational projections of judgment openly with him. I have also shared journal entries that specifically relate my desire to punish myself or quit counseling, because building this level of trust in a relationship that will eventually disappear (because it is of a professional and not personal nature) is scary as... I'm trying to move beyond that fear and trust that when the time comes, I may be sad to lose it, but I won't "need" it anymore.

What I don't understand is T sometimes acts very fatherly toward me and I'm not sure if it is conscious (on purpose for some reason) or counter-transference. For example, he has called me, "Kiddo" several times, which is a nickname my Dad called me and I used with my younger siblings. When I informed him, he initially apologized, but I told him it wasn't that I minded, but thought he should be aware of it. He has used it at least five times since then and has toned down modes of questioning that I reported reminded me of never feeling like I could get the "right" answer with my Dad...so I assume it is on purpose, but I'm not sure exactly what that purpose would be. He says when I allow my emotional side to emerge (usually intellectualize as I'm doing now), it seems almost teenage. Maybe he is trying to "parent" me through that state? I don't know.

I am planning to bring up the topic openly with him next session, because the last few sessions my fear of going any deeper only to eventually lose that connection has kept me barely able to talk. As in, I retreat inside my head, only somewhat aware of what T is saying, and start sketching rather than noting our conversation or my thoughts. I could just journal it and email him as usual, but I feel it's important to push through and actually talk about it, intimidating as it is. I'm afraid even writing all this down here has turned it into an intellectual thing. I'm still incapable of "feeling" in front of him and not sure I will ever be able to. I pretty much only do so with my husband, because I only feel safe enough to do when I have physical contact (a hug, a hand on my shoulder, etc.) to ground me. While I feel I "need" that grounding, I also feel awkward and guilty thinking of anyone else doing so. I'm not sure what his policy is on that stuff as I've only ever shook his hand and had him tap me to get my attention when I was listening to music and didn't hear him approach. Anyway, that's mostly unrelated.

Basically, I'm looking for advice on the best way to approach the conversation on whether this paternal dynamic is conscious (for a purpose), unconscious because he has kids around my age or just in my head. I have no reason to believe he'll be anything but kind and supportive, because he's dealt well with all sorts of irrationality so far. But it's still scary to have the conversation. Also, how to be emotionally present in counseling and stop "blanking." It can get kind of expensive to show up and say almost nothing of substance.

Hi Blackbird,

Thank you for all the support. Today has been the roughest day so far. I had to leave work because I couldn't keep it together. I have definately bottomed out. I don't have anymore appointments set up with my T but once one is setup, I will be spilling everything. I can't just keep living like this.

I have been seeing a different T about it, and yes, it IS out of avoidance.

I'm really scared that I won't make it through this pain or that my marriage won't survive. My stability is the glue of the marriage. For the past 3 months I have put on an Oscar winning performance but as of this week, I can no longer act like I'm on top of the world when I have never been so hurt in my life.

Thank you again.

I've been reading a bit more on here since I posted earlier and am amazed to find so much of what I experience to be common. It's nice to hear from other people who are baffled by this sense of neediness toward their Ts. I am really blessed that mine is so patient with me. At one moment, I'm practically begging him to respond (he encourages/allows me check in via text to monitor) and the next I'm instructing him to ignore me out of the shame of "needing" him, sending me into a self-abuse cycle. I have admitted horrible projections, which can border on paranoia, of how he might hate/judge me, how I feel like I can hear a far off sigh when he receives my texts or even that is going behind my back to the few others I am close to. I'll feel completely liberated by being able to trust him so well to admit these things, then panic about his inevitable disappearance and close off or ask about quitting.

He is so patient and reassuring about my irrationality and always encouraging me to expose the lies I believe about dependence/needing I use to never need anyone enough to be betrayed or hurt. The best I have been able to explain it to him so far is to tell him that he makes me feel very safe...and to me that safety itself feels UNsafe and makes me panic. My biggest fear right now is that I will bring the transference issue to his attention and it will either disgust him or he will realize he's done it unintentionally and have to "fix" it. It's probably ridiculous to worry that a T who has been practicing for over 20 years and who is privy to my past, and my current fears of losing counseling has NOT figured out the transference connection that is occurring (and how I act out to fight it).

I am fine with him utilizing my transference to get at the issues beneath if he consciously intended to allow this parental dynamic. However, if unintended, I worry I am draining, manipulating or otherwise taking advantage of him (yes, boundary issues are common in my family). I feel personally responsible for his choice to interact with me--does anyone else feel they must have mind control powers or else no one would give them the time of day? Basically, I feel like I need his explicit permission to be OK with my feelings of wanting/needing to be nurtured and cared for by other people, and specifically him. It just seems so counter-intuitive that someone would allow me to burden them in that way (he says not a burden, but we all KNOW better, don't we?).

I go back and forth between being so afraid he'll reject me and almost willing him to do it, so I can at least see where he draws the line (and then safely avoid it thereafter). I keep asking T to give me rules or structure, because I have this insane idea that if I can just have enough information to accurately predict everyone's expectations and boundaries, I can somehow meet them all and never be abandoned or disappoint anyone. And I have been just successful enough at it in my life to believe such an equation for safety might actually exist.

Yet, knowing all this about myself and where it comes from, I still can't assimilate that knowledge and process it on a deep enough level to even begin to work through it. I think I'm starting to realize we're talking years of work ahead. Somehow I imagined that a conceptual understanding was enough to help me knock it out in a matter of months.

Hi Yak and welcome to the Boards. I'm glad you are finding validation and explanation here. I know you will also find support.

I am exhausted and need to get some sleep but I wanted to welcome you and to just say that you sound very much like a classical case of "disorganized attachment". Do you know anything about attachment theory? When you say that you want to be with your T but you also want to run away from him that tips me off.

I may be off base and I apologize if I am but I would take a guess that your caregivers in childhood were erratic, undependable and more importantly alternately scary TO you and seemingly scared OF you and in taking care of your needs. There may be any and all kinds of abuse and trauma in your background. Perhaps you had to learn to parent yourself or your siblings and even your parents. You did not get your needs met as a child and felt very alone. Maybe you used dissociation to cope with situations that were too frightening for a child to handle.

I have a disorganized attachment and a trauma background and much of your posts resonated with me.

Again, I apologize if I am wrong and off base.

BTW, what kind of therapist is your T? Does he do CBT, psychodynamic, relational, etc.

Look forward to getting to know you.

True North

hi, Yak- nice to see you- I hope you are cool if I just respond to SBR from before... We kinda cross-posted-

SBR-

I just want to say, that if you have to leave work because you are hurting so bad over your T (and trust me, I have been and am often, there), then it seems like things really are getting to a point where you need to talk, and badly. And if the stability of your marriage feels like it is all on your shoulders, that is doubly hard, a burden very difficult to bear...is your wife depressed? I just ask because I am in a marriage where, I am able to cognitively recognize the great difficulty my husband has because I am depressive, but I am emotionally unable to do a thing about it! He has no idea of how badly I feel for him deep down inside, or how much I long for him to be able to connect with me, and to help me, as I deeply long to be able to help and connect with him! It is awful. I just wonder if your situation is similar...I know my h feels like he is carrying the marriage- he thinks I do not care about him at all, and I know this...and I think he does not care about me. and he is convinced that he is the glue that holds it all together. But I feel like I am dying without his emotional support and I don't know how to ask him for what I need from him...which is basically compassion and tenderness, and forgiveness for my deep failings, especially in the area of physical love. I'll bet your wife feels the same. I guess I have tried to give him what I needed, and he has tried to give me what he needed! And it didn't work. I wonder if what you get from your T is what you really need to learn to ask for, in some way, from your wife? and give your wife what you would like to give your T? Maybe. Might be a simplistic answer...?? but maybe. If not, just disregard! My T and I work with this kind of thought...maybe yours is different, and that is ok too. I hope the T you are consult with is helping with your situation, which sounds so awfully painful.

BB

Lovely to see you here again BB.

And welcome, Yakusoka.

Thanks for all the warm welcomes. First off, yakusoku is a Japanese word (I got my BA in Japanese) and it means promise...just a tidbit for you all. To answer a few comments/questions:

Monte - my T also sits about five feet away (well, I am now comfortable enough that sitting in the closest possible location leaves me four or five feet away) with a coffee table in between. I'm a married woman and he's a married man and we're both Christian, so I wouldn't want him to do anything that made him uncomfortable...but I'm not sure I'll be able to relax enough to show my vulnerability without at least proximity. He's read as much in my journal, but he's also read how physical touch feels very awkward (i.e. I feel it's a burden to touch me), so even if he were willing, he's probably getting mixed messages from my end. I'm really blessed that he puts up with reading my journals/texts, since I am unable to communicate verbally about anything that "means" something.

TN: What I know about attachment is more from the Early Childhood Education courses I took a few years ago. I utilize the information I learned there with my daughter and the child I provide daycare for out of my home. So, I guess I've studied healthy attachment, but not broken attachment (other than a web search here and there). I hesitate to self-diagnose, because I really have no basis to do so, but the closest description I've ever read is borderline personality disorder.
Your description is fairly accurate. My mother was very erratic, undependable, scary (throwing things constantly) and yes I sometimes had to parent her along with my younger siblings. I was usually not on the receiving end of physical fights, because I dealt with her by always trying to be better, both better than her and better than anyone could expect. I didn't always succeed, but I guess I kind of went into martyr mode (and this was before I became a Christian) and sacrificed my needs into oblivion. The week I found out I got into Stanford, I was kicked out of my Mom's house for trying to stay neutral in an argument she was having with my sister. I spent one Summer there and have pretty much never gone back.
My dad was very dependable (emotionally detached, but reliable), until he remarried and I saw him only on weekends, where he had to split time between work, his new wife and me. Seeing him on weekends meant I no longer spent that time with my grandmother (his mother) who was the only consistent caregiver I had. By high school, I ceased seeing him regularly at all. I think I actually stopped being willing to receive help/support from them beyond food and clothing in early middle school.
As far as abuse, my oldest sister said I witnessed my mom's boyfriend throwing her into the wall and dragging her down the hallway by her hair when I was five. I remember knowing that the boyfriend had caused a hole in the hallway wall, like someone had told me a story about it, but have no memory of the event. I don't think I was ever physically abused (beyond putting myself in the middle of others' fights), but I have whole periods of time where my memories are more like general narratives of "how things were." For instance, I don't remember anything changing when my mom had a complete mental breakdown at six. Either I had such minimal contact with her that it didn't seem weird that she was absent or I've blocked it out.
There was a lot of emotional abuse, being told I wasn't good enough, wasn't helping enough, "I don't care," having my mom threaten suicide to me. But I really can't get much beyond, "That's kind of messed up, but whatever."
In terms of dissociation, I have kind of noticed five "states" that I get into that seem to mostly exclude the others: Intellectual, Caregiver, Anxious, Angry/Self-Abuse and Victim. The first two are useful and I can control. The last two are at odds and kind of take me over and get me into cycles where I reach out for help with my overwhelming feelings and then get so angry about that behavior that I can't help but berate/threaten the needy victim part. I'm always "there" so-to-speak, but when I come through one of those states, it's like I can't even relate to the feelings and thoughts I was having even a few seconds before. They don't make any sense.
As far as my T goes...this may sound stupid, but I have no idea what his approach is. I know he heavily incorporates spirituality (which works for me), but being fairly new to counseling, it really never occurred to me to ask or analyze his "style."

I just noticed there is a "Transference II" topic. Should I be posting over there instead? I didn't mean to reopen an inactive thread if that's what I did.

I've been stewing over how to have this conversation with T most of the evening and it kind of makes me heart-sick, if that makes any sense, to imagine being this vulnerable with something he has the power to offer or deny me. All I can think to say is something along the lines of: "I've been aware, and commented on, my caution around anything that feels like a paternal dynamic. I've been sensing that dynamic here for a while and I think a lot of the reactions I have been having are related to my resistance to allowing myself to participate in those feelings, because of fear, shame and guilt. I don't know if it's something that you have purposefully attempted, consciously allowed, were unaware of or even is just all in my head. I imagine if I have been aware of it enough to comment on it, you have probably realized it, perhaps before I did. I don't necessarily need an explanation and I don't actually mind if we utilize that dynamic as part of this process, but I do want to ask you to please be very careful with me in this area. Abusing myself over these feelings was very damaging, but allowing myself to accept them puts me in a very vulnerable place and I don't feel like I can handle being re-traumatized by rejection." But, I feel, again, like I am manipulating T into accepting me/my feelings when he might not be naturally inclined to. I don't really fear that he will reject or abandon me completely, but I go back and forth on whether it is appropriate for me to want to be nurtured by people instead of taking those needs to God (from my spiritual perspective). Obviously, we were designed to be in relationship with one another, but I get stuck on this concept quite frequently...probably as an excuse to avoid risking dependence on people who might fail me.
Anyway, part of me fears he will just (lovingly) say that God wants or needs to fulfill that role for me and then move on. It's not that I fundamentally disagree, but if my lack of ability to receive nurture on a human level prevents me from accessing it spiritually as well. I don't know. I'm feeling incredibly lame about the whole thing. I made the mistake of texting him that I felt called to discuss something in our next session, so now I probably can't get off the hook with it either.

Monte - you guys can call me Yak. It doesn't bother me. It just seems funny to me, because everything is syllabic in Japanese, so Ya or Yaku might be a more appropriate abbreviation (the change is unnecessary though). Your observations are fair. I do get a little weird about being told I'm intelligent. My poor counselor always says such nice things about how smart he thinks I am, how I could turn my journal entries into a book eventually (I was one class away from a Creative Writing minor). I've had to warn him that being told I'm smart makes me feel like there is an expectation for me to "get" things, which makes it hard for me to admit confusion or disagree with him as an authority figure. That's not really a problem on the internet though, where I feel anonymous.
I don't really expect T to take on a father figure role. It's just kind of confusing to me, because my assumption is that he would NOT want to create/allow that dynamic, but I can't imagine he is unconsciously do it either. So, if he's trying to get me to go directly to God for all my needs, I would prefer that he please stop allowing that dynamic, I guess. Trying to cut it off myself while still remaining "open" was literally tearing me apart. It had me doing things with my self-abusive (and, yes suicidal) inclinations that had never happened during my previous battles with depression, where I was able to just consciously choose to disallow any meaning to those thoughts. But to have that missing piece thrown in your face every week and feel you have to beat your neediness into submission can do some crazy stuff to your mind, I guess. I am sincerely hoping I'm through the other side of that tunnel, because it was all I could do to just not let my kid be exposed. As you can imagine, a lot of empathy and anger about being like my crazy mom. Anyway, not really wanting to get into that, because revealing it makes me want to punish it and then I'm trapped in a cycle.
I would not say I always express myself this way in person, but often (unless I am "blanked" by anxiety and can't talk at all). If the concept is something I can intellectualize, yes I usually will. If I have thought through and especially if it's something I have written about, I am able to completely dissociate all aspects of feelings when communicating my thoughts or even how I did feel at the time I was processing. And if I can't do that, anxiety automatically does it for me. Sometimes even the most painful things will seem more interesting or amusing than anything else. Basically, think of it in terms of my models: I had a mother who seemed certifiably crazy, very emotional and expressive of her feelings in harmful ways and a father who was detached and analytical to a fault sometimes. He was the safer of the two to emulate. I try not to have same dynamic with my own loved ones, so I guess I kind of switch into Caregiver to relate to people, but the only emotional interaction I can really manage is to give nurture and empathize, not receive or experience my own feelings. It gets to the point where it almost feels I have no identity of my own, like a psychic chameleon, always playing the expected role. T sometimes asks me to go "stream of consciousness" with him verbally, which he assumes I do with my journal. He does not seem to understand that even when writing, it is a drawn out process and it takes a lot of digging to get to a feeling space. I wonder if it is as frustrating to him as it is to me that I cannot talk.
That said, the statement I want to communicate to T was about as unintellectual as I get. Especially the part where I make a request (please be careful), which makes me cringe and have an anxiety attack to just think of saying. Asking directly (as opposed to refusing to need or hinting and hoping) for anything is a nearly impossible level of vulnerability. I pretty much only do it with my husband and because he operates almost completely without reading cues, so I must ask for everything directly. I'm sure you can see how all this will also be a barrier to connecting (T likes to call it abiding) with God...because no one can approach the cross without carrying their brokenness there, without seeking or needing (healing, instruction, forgiveness, the way) and no one has ever succeeded in coming to it with the sort of preparedness and pure motivation I keep aspiring to. My grandmother (again, major caregiver) was a JW, so a lot of that probably comes from there.

Once again feel called to apologize for the quantity of my writing. It's kind of just something that happens. You can imagine what a kind, patient guy my counselor is to be working a full-time practice (out of three offices), have a family, participate in church and make time to read all my (projection) BS.

Also, to answer the question about expressing myself simply, I really struggle with that, because I get so afraid of being misunderstood. For instance, if I said things simply like, "When you call me 'Kiddo,' I feel parented and cared for, which hurts, because I start to realize that absence and I honestly don't know if I'm allowed to receive nurture anymore as an adult." I feel from experience he would apologize for triggering me and think I was asking him to avoid that word, when I just wanted my reaction to be understood, validated and to be given permission to still have those needs. If I give more explanation, I guess I feel at least I won't be rejected out of him misunderstanding me. Also, I'm afraid T telling me to just invite Christ into those feelings will feel like he is telling me I am not allowed to have them. Rejection again. I'm just too worn down from self-restraint to keep this up the way I have been.

Hi Yaku... thanks for clarifying the name. We sort of shorten everyone's names here and some will get very affectionate nicknames after awhile.

Please don't ever apologize for the length of your posts. We enjoy getting to know people and the long posts are very welcome, especially when tackling and addressing complex topics. So far I have enjoyed reading everything you have written and I can see that you have developed a lot of insight into what is going on in therapy. I have to run out for awhile now and will be back later to write when I have time to focus on a thoughtful response.

TN

Thanks for the reassurance. I sometimes worry my humongous posts might be interpreted as an expectation for similarly detailed replies, but that isn't the case. It's just a filter malfunction in my brain.

I'm really enjoying participating here. My husband has recently asked me to "stop using him as a second therapist," because I keep telling him everything and then asking for reassurance that it's OK/normal or getting upset when he looks at me like I'm an alien (for example, admitting I repeatedly read/analyze my text threads and emails with T). 90% of my sharing with him comes from a place of feeling that as my partner, he should have a deeper emotional intimacy with me than anyone (so I tell him everything I tell T, though maybe less detail). The problem is, his issues and experiences are so different from mine that he doesn't "get" it and it really frustrates him when his attempts to fix it are rebuffed, because I just want to be related to. So, finding other people who do get is relieving some of that tension. I guess that is my long way of saying, "Thanks!"

In about one day, I will be sitting in T's office trying to have this ridiculous conversation about how this paternal dynamic is effing me up and I still don't even know what I'm going to say or how to say it. I've texted him that I'm having anxiety attacks about something I know we need to discuss, so I doubt there is any getting out of it unless I dissociate into a barely verbal state and just can't. I haven't driven him away with my ridiculous thoughts or behavior so far (which he even has the courtesy to deny are ridiculous), so I have no logical reason to believe he'll be repulsed and push me away. But it feels like such a certainty.

I tried to explain to my husband that if T allows this transference to exist or fosters it (even unintentionally) like he has been and then suddenly withdraws, it will break me and the trust I have built with T. Hubby laughed at me and sarcastically said, "Seriously? Break you? You'll never bounce back? You won't ever be able to trust him again?" Am I crazy for feeling that that would be severely re-traumatizing? I don't think I have trusted anyone but my husband and maybe my pastor with the reality of me, and both of those people have known me for years, not months. T has gotten so deep, so quickly...and now the idea of that trust makes me feel an inconsolable loneliness.

What I need to hear is that it's OK to let myself accept these feelings, to attempt to release the shame I use to regulate them, and utilize them to get at what's underneath (the abandonment, neglect and abuse I can feel only ambivalence about) and he will be there for me as long as I need, no matter how heavy it gets, until I am ready for him to slowly step back, more able to relate to and rely on God as my Father, and have built other trusting relationships.

PLEASE, can T say exactly that? Can he say that what I need from him is not too much? That it's not wrong and sick? That it's understandable to need him for now? That I can trust him with that need? That one too many mistakes on my part won't drive him away? I need to know he will be careful and tender if I'm going to open up that box marked FRAGILE. It's full of broken shards of me that I've always thought were too sharp for anyone to help me put back together, because allowing them to be touched can only cause damage to anyone who comes into contact with me.

I keep feeling like an angry shift is going to happen and I'm going to go to that place where all I want is to abuse and starve my little victim into submission to keep this need at bay. If I end up back where I was a few weeks ago, I may seriously have to quit, because I'm exhausted by these sick spirals!

Thanks to everyone for letting me vent and putting up with me posting so much so soon after joining. I haven't been letting myself do my introspective journaling, because it will negate any chance I have of sharing with T on a feeling level. But some of this anxiety had to find a home somewhere...

Hello all,

I haven't posted anything in a few months. I hope all of you are doing well or at least moving forward. To refresh you, I have been going to marriage counseling with my wife for 2 years now. Last fall, I developed some serious transference feelings for my couples therapist. She met with me many times on an individual basis to help me work out some negative feelings I was having. She actually did a great job and changed my entire outlook on life. But because my wife is somewhat unsupportive, ok, she is very unsupportive in every way, my therapist became who I leaned on for support.

As the transference grew stronger, I knew I had to do something about it so I sought out a different individual therapist. He was a big help. I already knew what was going on with me because of sights like this one, so he didn't really have much info. to offer. But it was so nice to be able to just get the words out. I stopped going to him in late Feb. He had encouraged me to tell my couples therapist my feelings. It took me a month to prepare and after 2 months of not talking about it, I felt like I needed to say something. So last week I finally told her.

She was great. She was completely supportive and a total professional. However, because she is our couple’s therapist, my wife has to know everything that my therapist knows. Also, my wife has seen me completely break down. She also knows that I was going to an individual therapist other than our couples therapist. So my wife is waiting for an answer anyway. So on top of everything, I'm now preparing to tell my wife.

The week after I told my therapist about the transference was hard, but not as hard as it was dealing with it alone a few months ago. Yesterday I actually woke up feeling good about things. I thought maybe things were getting better. But something happened last night where I feel like I took 50 steps back. I couldn't get my couples therapist out of my head and was overwhelmed with despair. I'm feeling so sad now and I don't understand why I seem to have gone backwards.

This really really sucks. When I get this down and the transference takes over, I withdraw from my family. I’m rude and short with my wife and I don’t have any tolerance for my 2 wonderful boys. My boys don’t deserve to be ignored by their father. Also, I feel like I keep having to start over.

Stuck - I'm new to the forum, so I don't know your nickname, but I did read your posts when I was browsing this thread after I first joined. I'm glad you were able to tell your T about the transference feelings. I think without it out in the open, nothing can really be worked through. H and I see the same T, but not for marital, but sometimes information cross-pollinates, so I can understand how hard it must be to have to share your attachment with your wife. In my case, my transference isn't really erotic, so it isn't quite so hard to share with H. But, he doesn't get it, really at all, and can be very judgmental about it, non-supportive, so I can understand how daunting that is. Therapy has really crashed my ability to be the type of wife and mom I want to be, so I can understand those feelings too. I don't have much advice to offer, except that your caring about what type of husband and dad you are means a lot. No one can ever "nail" the mark when it comes to relationships, but caring enough to keep trying even when we fail is something. It's a lot better than either of my parents offered me. I don't know your background, so I can't say if that is the same for you. I will share with you that my H has shared a lot of uncomfortable feelings of being attracted to other women, both sexually and relationally...other women I am very close to. It IS hard, but it is not beyond my ability to accept and forgive, because his honesty means it is not something he wants for our relationship. It is something he is trying to move through. He wants to have those feelings for me instead. I'm hoping your wife, who is in therapy with you because she wants to make things work (I would think?), can see your honesty as a form of intimacy with her and a way of trying to get at that man who you want to be, the husband and dad you want to be.

I don't know if any of this is helpful, but I'm glad you shared here. Keep us up-to-date as you progress. Transference feelings can be so overwhelming and I have found such support here to process them, personally.

What do you mean when you say you feel like you have to start over? You mean start over in a new relationship?

I think its wonderful that you told your couples T about the transference. What a relief it must have been that she was so supportive, but I also understand the fear of now having to tell your wife. Hopefully with your Ts support, your wife will handle the news well.

Keep us posted.

Hi Stuck,

Thanks for the update. I'm really glad that you were able to tell your couples T about the transference. I'm hopeful that she will be able to explain this to your wife in a way that your wife can accept and understand. Hopefully it can provide the basis for some deeper exploration and dialogue in your therapy.

Please let us know how it goes if you can.

Thanks for all the helpful words. Yaku, some of the things you said will really help when it comes time to talk to my wife.

LadyGrey, what I meant was, I feel like I make so much progress and then go backwards. Causing me to start the healing process all over again. 2 steps forward,50 steps back.

Hi SBRH- nice to see you again. I see that you *are* making progress. When you last posted you were certain that you would never be able to own your feelings for your T to her- and just look- you have. So that is something to celebrate.

One thing you need to know- is that because of therapist and client confidentiality- your therapist cannot tell your wife what you revealed without your permission. That being said, when the time is right open communication is probably your best course of action. I strongly recommend that you reveal this in the context of the therapy. Doing it alone without the help of your couples or other T to explain it to your wife, might lead to a lot of terrible misunderstanding about it, as it is likely that your wife may not understand the nature of transference and may think of it as you being "unfaithful" to her- which isn't true. I think exploring the transference may well be the therapy you and wife need- because if you are not getting the support you need from you wife to be the husband and the father you long to be- then it is of course natural that you will try to (unconsciously) get those needs met elsewhere. and that is perfectly natural and normal part of therapy. So talking about it with the help of your T can help ease your wife into a more supportive role so that you at least are getting some of your needs for understanding and appreciation and acceptance met by your wife, along with your T.
Your feelings may be telling you that you are no good- but I see otherwise. I see a man who longs to be accepted, is honest, and clearly cares deeply about his wife even in spite of not getting what you need from her, and his children. I see someone who is being really honest about something terribly difficult and vulnerable. You ARE making progress SBRH. It just doesn't feel that way because of the pain. Don't give up on yourself. You are a great guy. Clearly. I understand how the pain of transference can sap all our energy and make it impossible to give anything to anyone. But- on the other side of the pain you will come out better and stronger and more sure of yourself and your own innate goodness.

Sending you loads of support- and respect, too-

Blackbird

Thank you so much BB. Everybody's words have been so helpful! After my last post, I emailed my T to get more advice on how I should tell my wife. I made many good points about how this would really hurt my wife. But I also agreed that I had to tell my wife something because she has seen me in so much pain. I made so many good points in the email that my T just wanted me to come in for an individual session.

I did so today. It went well. We worked out a truthful way to address it that shouldn't hurt my wife. To sum it up, I simply tell my wife that since I couldn't find support in my marriage, I found it in therapy. Things have gotten better btween my wife and I and I think she'll agree that we haven't been supportive to each other. We think this is a good way to go.

Now for the bad part. And I didn't see this coming. My T told me that I shouldn't come to her anymore for individual therapy. This is for 2 reasons. 1, so my wife doesn't suspect that I'm going to see my therapist for any reasons other than therapy. 2, it's for my own good. While I had already had these thoughts, and deep down I agree, I hated to hear it. I just didn't think she would do that. That REALLY sucks.

I had been going to a different individual therapist before I told my marriage T about this so she suggest I go to him.

Thanks for all of your support through this.

-Brad

Also, I'm really fighting the urge to email my T and tell her how unexpected this is to me and I'm really hurt.

Stuck - I'm glad you were able to work out a way to tell your wife, but sorry it seems to have come at the expense of so much pain for you. I would go ahead and email your T about these feelings that are coming up and let her know. Stuffing those feelings probably won't be healthy in the long run. It doesn't mean she will necessarily change her opinion, but as you're still working in marital therapy with this T, I think openness is to the benefit of your therapy experience and your marriage.

I am so sorry she doesn't feel she can work with you anymore. I understand it, yet I don't really. I guess, as a matter of conflict with the marital therapy, I can understand it...but as a matter of the T/client relationship, everything in me is screaming how wrong that is. Imagining my T doing that to me is devastating. Again, I'm not in marital counseling, but H and I see the same T, so imagining him saying he had to pick between us is terrifying. I'm sure it must be very painful. I hope you stick around and get support here as long as you need it!

Wow, that is wonderful that your wife took it so well. It sounds like therapy has been helpful for the both of you and she seems like a supportive wife.

However, I am sorry to hear that you T is terminating your therapy. Why does she think it is for your own good to do so?

I was also wondering why you and your T would think it was for your own good to terminate your individual therapy with her.. I can understand the temptation to think your wife will be suspicious when you go to sessions- however if it is explained to her clearly, that it is a therapeutic necessity to experience the transference- and if your T works that way, then it shouldn't be a problem. No less pain for you- but at least you'd have a chance to work through your transference with the T you are having it with.

My H knows about my transference, and he sees the pain I am in and is supportive to me in that vulnerable place- when I can show it to him, which is hard- even though- he knows about that my feelings for T are stronger (currently) than for him- he also understands that the feelings are from the past (thus their terrible intensity) and not about the present- and will not be acted upon. I've explained to him and he understands (better than my T does, apparently ) that it is a natural part of therapy, and that it almost has to happen. So he actually comforts me when I am able to let him, in the middle of the transference pain. There are times when it has brought us closer together because it opens my heart and he sees my pain, and then I can feel his love. I think the same might happen for you, if you let your wife see your pain. My own H is probably nervous to sign up for individual therapy himself because he sees the agony I am in sometimes and is afraid it will happen like that to him. As long as your T can keep her boundaries securely in place, it is normal and acceptable to continue. But- you know the best, your situation, so this is just outsider feedback, use it only if it is helpful to you, of course.

I'm glad you have another T to help and to turn to, in any case. I'm so sorry that this has transpired, SBR..I would send the email, if you can't talk to her about it in session.

BB

LadyGrey,

Sorry if I wasn't clear. I haven't told my wife yet. I will tomorrow night. I think it will go well though...I hope.
Blackbird, thank you for the thoughts. I am so upset about not being able to see her anymore. However, I do see her point. Or maybe I'm so wrapped up in the session that I just had that I can't see through her suggestions. Either way, I believe she has my best interests in mind.

Also, thank you too Yak.

This will be difficult. This really sucks!

Hi again,

Thank you to all of you for helping me and supporting me through this.

My wife and I had the conversation about my transference with our marriage T. Only time will tell how it really effected her. But I feel much better that I have no secrets to hide anymore. I told her that I found support through our marriage T. The support that I wasn’t finding in our marriage.

Over the past few months, our marriage has improved. Had it not been for that, this would not have gone over so well. My wife was angered (hurt) by this at first. She definitely does NOT understand transference. But I think by the end of the conversation, she excepted it…MAYBE?? My marriage T will be contacting her in the next few days to reinforce what I said and maybe explain it in terms that she can understand.

As far as not being able to see my couples T anymore...that hurt! After she told me, I couldn't stop crying. I didn't sleep that night. I sat in front of the computer for an hour debating on if I should send her an email that simply said, "I'm hurt. Not mad. Just really hurt". I ended up not sending it. I had to hide the crying from my wife. The following day, I went to my new T. He was a big help. He told me I was in mourning. I was grieving for the loss of somebody that was important to me and now she is gone forever. I really really lost it when he said that. I cried really hard because he was right. I cried all through the day. The next day, I felt much better. I still miss my T but I am now dealing with the loss. The difference between transference and grieving is that grieving/mourning eventually ends. Transference feels like it will never end. I'm happy about that.

Thanks again for all your support through this confusing time.
I hope I'm coming unStuckBetweenRockandHardPlace

I'm sorry you aren't able to see your couples T any more. I know how difficult it is terminating with a therapist, especially before you are ready to do so. I hope your new T is able to help you through this difficult transition.

I also hope that your couples T will be able to put things in terms that your wife will understand. It sounds as though even though she doesn't necessarily understand the concept of transference, she is accepting of it.

Stuck - I just want to say that you are so brave. I have been trying to explain my "dad" transference to H (and how it interferes with our marriage when I am not finding understanding/acceptance at home, but AM in therapy) and he doesn't really get it. We're OK, but I get that feeling of disconnect and how hard it is to have someone you love very much and you're working hard to connect with be hurt and angered by your honest communication.

I'm sorry not being with T is hurting you so much, but so glad you seem to have your new T to walk through it with. I get what you mean about transference feeling like it will never end, but I really hope that's not true! Because, my goal is to be able to see T and still care about that connection, but not in a way that feels like I will die once we finish our work together. H is pretty adamant about a very firm end, for now at least, so I'm scared if these feelings never go away or diminish, I will be suffering so much and most likely be even closer and more dependent by then. I have to imagine once it internally connects with what it is about, it gets easier...right? Please!!! Hopefully, your mourning process will also be something that can connect to what your transference is about.

Hi Yak,

I have known what my transference is about for some time. I got the support and validation that I needed from my wife through my T. I really hate to say that does not make anything any easier.

I do believe that what my T has done, while it pains me so much, is in my best interest as far as not seeing me anymore for individual sessions. Because of my feelings, I can not see her for couples sessions either. I don't think she fully understands this or maybe she is trying to go easy on me by leaving me a way in.

I'm sorry to say that. Hang in there.

Stuck - What I mean by "connect" is not knowledge, really. I know exactly what my transference feelings are about. Often, I can point out exactly what specific things T says or does to trigger them. I can give him a list of incidents that were similar in my past. But, if you asked me if I felt anything about those things that happened in the past, nope! I don't feel hurt/upset/angry that my dad was in and out of my life, in an out-of-sight-out-of-mind sort of way. The most I can remember about being told that my step-mom was "done raising kids" and I wasn't welcome to live with my dad is confusion and surrendering to that reality. The feelings I remember about my mom's abuse and neglect are feelings of pride for being "better" and sacrificing for the benefit of my family. So, I'm hoping that if my feelings of abandonment, fear, etc. can feel like they are ABOUT those past events, I will be less afraid of losing my T. Right now, I intellectually know they're not about him, but they FEEL about him anyway. Also, some of the stuff is so far back that I can't remember it. Mom left me alone in cribs/playpens for hours, sometimes crying the whole time, according to other family members. My parents split when I was one for a couple of years (and then they were off and on), so my dad disappeared on me quite a bit before my earliest memories. So, whatever injuries are related to that infant/toddler era, I'm not sure I can do much about...but I am hopeful! I guess if it doesn't get better after a period of time, I'll just have to give it up and endure the "abandonment" again.

Aw, SBR- I'm sorry your are hurting so much inside. I wish there was a way that you could take that pain to your wife and let her comfort some of it, I wonder if she would be able to support you in that way...just to give you a hug or be with you in a bit- that would be so nice. I used to be able to let my H comfort me in the transference pain, but lately that has gotten too difficult so I know how hard it is to feel you have to bear it alone. I'm very glad that you have the other T to help you, as I can see that you decision is made.
((((hugs)))) I hope we can support you in this really difficult time. Here is one place at least where we can all understand the pain of losing a beloved T.

BB

Greetings.

Is transference something you can manage? I welcomed it when I discovered what was happening because I feel like I trust her enough to explore these things no matter how awkward it may be at times, but at the same time I didn't bargain for all of this. I could be walking my dog in a park full of vampires at midnight, and all I think about is sitting in that chair talking to her. I'm giving myself 2 weeks to get past this or I will quit seeing her. I do not want to let it get to a point where I'm calling her or any of that nonsense. To put it simply, this sucks and it's getting worse every day.

And can someone recommend a cool signature for a psych board? Thanks.

Hello Analyze This and welcome to the forum. Sorry that I have no experience of positive transference (my speciality is full on negative stuff!) but there are loads of others on here who know what you are talking about and will be able to comment.

Just wanted to say hi.

LL

p.s. can't help with the signature either, as you can see I haven't even managed an avatar let alone a sig.

well, what is the difference between positive and negative? i'm not exactly having a good time here

Thanks for the reply

I'm trying to understand if this is more transference or just attachment to your therapist. My experience of transference is that I feel my T as a parental figure. I want want things from him that I would want from a good parent. I am scared he will abandon me and disappear from my life, like my father did. When he acts/talks certain ways, I get triggered into seeing him in ways that are not congruent with our actual relationship and my experiences of his kindness and caring. So, for me, the positive transference experiences are things like wanting him to take care of me, wanting to just be with him all the time, being anxious about being separated from him, wanting him to hug me, etc. It isn't positive in terms that it always feels good. It's positive in terms that I am reacting to him as if he is a "good parental figure" from my childhood. T is good and safe = positive. T feels like my dad and I feel like his kiddo = transference of the therapeutic relationship into one that feels like parent-child. Negative transference experiences for me are things like being sure he is going to abandon me, abuse me, is thinking nasty things about me, hates me, etc. T is mean and unsafe to rely on = negative. T feels neglectful, abusive and abandoning like many of my actual experiences with my mom and dad = transference.

In both positive and negative transference, my experiences of my T are either incongruent with or out of proportion to the reality of our interactions in a way that directly relates to my past experiences. Is this what you experience with your T? Or is it just that you feel safe with her and really want to talk to her? I have a feeling you mean the former, but I wanted to make sure. It's not a pleasant experience, but if your T is open and accepting of working through it and exploring it with you, I've found it can really move things along in a way that just talking about my past never has. So, I hope you can consider not giving up.

Hi Analyze This and welcome,

My experience was that it only got more difficult until I took action. In my case, I went to another T to tell him how I felt about my other T. I thought I could manage it. I thought it would fade away. For me, I developed transference for my marriage therapist which made things complicated because I had to hide the feelings and thoughts from my wife. I eventually told my marriage therapist how I felt. At first, I thought it went well. But after the smoke cleared, all my fears of abondonment by my marriage T came true. She would no longer see me on an individual basis.

Now because this is a couples therapist, my experience is different from what most people have to deal with in an individual therapist. But it still hurt just as bad. I've been dealing with this for 6 months and I hope I see the light at the end of the tunnel.

AT ~ hi, and welcome to the forum!

"Is transference something you can manage?" Yes, and actually, with some T’s, it can be a very useful tool for change. With some Ts – not so much. And sometimes counter-transference can get in the way too. If your T is an individual T, who does any kind of psychodynamic work, hopefully your T will be well versed in how to handle transference. It’s really rather common part of the therapy process.

Does your T meet needs of yours that haven’t been met elsewhere? This is a common place where transference happens. Whenever I have a close session with my T where she meets needs of mine, listens, helps me get through pain – especially in ways that haven’t been done before, I tend to think about her more and I notice a tendency for me to start to idealize her a bit. I remind myself that I am feeling this way not because of her, but because of the work we are doing. Then I try to think of other ways to work on the same issues outside of therapy, and on my own, and sometimes this helps me to not idealize her. My T is also really good at counter-acting any idealizing of her when I bring it up with her that my head is starting to go that way. A big part of managing the transference for me has been grieving the fact that my T does meet needs I needed met elsewhere when I was younger. I’m not sure how or why that helps, but it does.

Have you talked with your T about it? I think it would be really important to talk with her about it, especially if feeling this way is interfering with your life or is something that would lead you to quit therapy.

None of this may apply to your specific situation – take it all with a grain of salt. (or a pound or two).

It is great to meet you!



((((((Stuck)))) I'm so sorry about all the pain you are in and that your T didn't handle the transfernce well and wasn't able to help you through it.

Hey folks,

Just thought I'd check in. My experience is that if I don't unload here or with my new T, the build up makes things worse.

I was doing pretty good and then the past week has been rough. I really miss my old T. I try to remind myself that I miss what she provided me and not her. How can I miss someone I don't know. But I struggle with this reasoning sometimes.

I really miss her. At times I feel hurt. But I know that she did what she did in my best interest. It just sucks.

((Stuck))

I'm sorry. I can't imagine how hard it must feel to lose that. Even intellectually knowing that your feelings are about missing something somewhere else and that your old T was trying to do what she thought was best...I can't imagine that makes the actual feelings any easier. I'm glad you're taking care of yourself by talking with new T and to us here, rather than letting it build up inside.

Ninn - Hi and thanks for sharing. I can relate to a lot of what you said.

I also come from being raised by a mom who gave zero affection and affirmation, in addition to occasionally being quite abusive and threatening. My father is alive, but mostly disappeared from my life between 10 and 12 years old. I am wanting and needing hugs too, but my T is a guy and we're either not there yet or it's just something he won't do. I'm glad it is helping you though.

The wanting to talk, wanting a hug, enjoying her care, but being scared of it taken away, those are all really normal feelings (at least for myself and the people around this forum). My T has also said that he never pushes a client out, but I just can't seem to get my mind around it. Because of the transference I get with my dad, I am fairly certain he's about to go "poof" at any given time. It's hard. I hope it gets better (and sometimes it does, and then worse, and better again). It's a long journey. I find myself begging my H to quit it all the time too. But, it's unnatural to live the way I do, so cut off from myself. So, I keep trying to tell myself that the only way out is through and just keep taking another step. It's so hard to do, but I am (usually) able to sense it is also right. It is the very best thing for me. I trust my T that he has my well-being as his top priority, so if he wants to walk me through this pain and anger that I've shut out, then I have to believe I'll make it...

I totally get how you feel. My T has a spiritual angle, so it's always about strengthening my relationship to God, finding safety with Him, etc. I found that I just needed to outright tell T, more than once, "When I am feeling vulnerable and needy and you do the God stuff, it feels like you are pushing me away. It makes me feel like I am wrong and bad for having my needs met by you or anyone else, even if ultimately God has put those people in my life to do it." I've had to do stuff like specifically tell him that his "God bless" at the end of sessions sometimes sounds like "OK, F--- off now, go away!" I've had to ask him to pray 5-10 minutes before ending the session, so I don't feel like he's shoving me off on God. I've had to tell him that if I text in a really vulnerable state, not to do the, "I'm praying for you. Welcome your helplessness as a prerequisite for God carrying you." Basically, I let him know that him pushing me in that way was actually making me resentful toward the spirituality, rather than accepting of it, because it felt like he was trying to get rid of me. I've had to be very direct about it, saying I don't expect him to change what he believes (and I do too), but that there is a time and a place for him to communicate those ideas to me and a time and a place where I absolutely cannot hear it without transference stuff making it freak me out. Is it possible you could tell your T how it feels to be pushed off on your mom, sister and H like that? To let her know that there are times when her support of you building those relationships is received positively, but when you are trying to accept the feelings of need and comfort you have with her as your therapist, it makes you feel pushed away, lonely, scared, etc.? I know that's a scary conversation to have, but it was causing me so many problems in my case that I just had to do it. So far, it has been pretty helpful, at least in that one aspect.

It is a super scary thing to do, but I've found it helps, even though I still regularly have my freakouts, certain executive parts of me "know" that T will not abandon me. Other parts, not so much, but they need time. I drew my T a map of ways my parents were that damaged me, things he does that trigger me and all the behaviors/feelings/thoughts that got transferred onto him as a result. I was embarrassed about it, but he loves it. He keeps it with my file and says it's "so good!" everytime it manages to drift to the top of my pile. It was a lot easier to get the ball rolling that way than to actually get the words out. It was just handing over a piece of paper and letting him ask questions about what I meant. Kind of a chicken thing to do, but it worked in our case.

Edit: My family is not at all spiritual, so for me, I don't have triggers around that sort of thing. If anyone other than a transference figure like T who I perceive as a "rejecting/abandoning parent" were to say, "I'll be praying for you," I would receive that as care and support. Most people who say that to me are friends or my pastor and they actually do support me in practical ways too, so that makes it easier. However, if "dad" (T) says that to me when I am in the throws of my transference, it's like, "I can't deal with you right now, go ask your REAL Father." Ugh.

Hi All,
new to the site and forum, just today and wow!!! Sooo glad I found you all, and that I am not crazy for the feelings I have been experiencing.
Background: currently heading into second year with T, not new to therapy though. Struggled with depression, anxiety, esteem, eating disorders since adolescence.
Last year when I sought therapy, I had been widowed about 9 months(two years next week)and was starting a new relationship with a man.(that ended soon after begining therapy)
Anyway, my T is a woman, about 10 years older than I am. We both understand that I have transference issues, and dependency issues. Trying to figure out what this stems from though. I don't know if I think of her as my mother, (who I was very, very close to and passed away 6 years ago) or if the feelings are just due to fear of abandonment. I'm not only a recent widow, but my son's father comitted suicide 15 years ago. And then last year, when I began dating this new dude, and then he dumped me, I was devestated beyond belief.
I have had a rough time this last year, and my T has been so there for me, including talking me down from the ledge a few times. We live in the roughly the same community, and even know some of the same people. My huge issue with her, is that I just want her to be my friend. I know that there is no chance of that happening, and it just breaks my heart. She knows how strongly I feel about her, and my curiosity regarding her life. I recently sent her an e-mail telling her how much this whole attachment is upsetting me. I also let her know how much I am curious about her life, and even so far as to question her secxuality. I just want to know, does she have a husband or a partner? Well, today she called me, and we discussed this a bit, and then she questioned MY sexuality. Well, no, my feelings for her or not like that at all, but now all afternoon I am worried that she thinks I have a sexual crush on her, when it is not that way at all. This is so stressful to me.
I can so relate to what so many of you have shared about losing your T. I cannot imagine my life without her in it. I cry when she yells at me, and worry so much that she will leave me.
Thanks all for letting me spill my guts out here, I'll stop now.
L

Gargyrle,

Welcome and thanks so much for sharing your story. I also found this forum by this transference thread a few months ago. I'm so sorry about your husband and just the rough couple of years you have been experiencing. I can imagine that those sorts of losses, back-to-back, would transfer abandonment fears onto any person who is there for you in the way your T is. I think that is completely natural. I wouldn't worry too much about your T thinking you had a crush on her. Even if she did, that is a fairly normal experience for Ts. I would guess she is probably just trying to see which way the transference leans (erotic, parental, other) as part of your work together. I think having an open conversation about how you feel, why you are interested in her personal life, your desires for a friendship you know to be impossible (how painful that is) and why she is asking about your sexuality would really help. My transference conversation with my T went really well, although it is something that has really been ongoing since then, it was really much easier having the idea of it out in the open, since I no longer had to restrain how much of this sort of stuff was coming up for me. The one concern I have is that you stated you cry when she yells at you. In what circumstances is your T yelling at you? I've only really had the one therapist (except a few weeks in childhood), and he has never even raised his voice to me. He has stopped me, gotten my attention, spoke clearly and slowly...but never has he done anything that would remotely approach yelling. I hope this forum continues to be helpful to you.

-Yaku

Thanks Yaku!
You seem to be very in tune with all of this, thanks so much.
My T is probably the best and brightes T I have ever been to. She is the only one I have ever worked with that has had me create measurable goals for my life. She not only deals with my crisis, but is helping me work to create a better life for myself. Part of my problem is that I am stubborn, a bit immature, and she lets me know this. I don't always follow her advise, and there have been bad outcomes because of that. I also have very thin skin, so that when I don't listen, and she verbally kicks my ass because of that, I cry.
I tend to cry a lot. I'm a very emotional person, and I feel like I've been hurt so much and that I have so much pain in my heart and soul, it's hard not to cry.
In the last year, though struggling, I have grown in small increments. I recently ran my first 5k, at age 45. This is something I never thought that I would ever do. She has also helped bring me back to God, and prayer. Last year she suggested I go to the lakeshore and watch the sunrise. What an amazing experience that was!! I do this at least once a week now.
I do know that we have to talk about this transference issue, but it's embarassing in some ways. Not becuase it's sexual at all, more because I'm smart enough to know that we will n ever be friends, but the fact that I want to be and it hurts that we never will. I worry more that she doesn't like me as a person and would never want to be my friend anyway.
Is it wrong that I want to know about her personal life? She talks about some of it, but then some is off limits it seems. It's very difficult.
I'm rambling again....thanks for being here for this lonely Gargyrle.
L

Hi Gargyrle,

I understand wanting to be friends and know more about your T. I have the same feelings. My T shares some personal stuff with me but only as it relates to my current problem. I was once surprised when she shared her maiden name with me. I didn't ask her about it, she just told me. It did relate to what we were talking about but it just surprised me that she was that open. I would enjoy being friends with my T and I do fear that she doesn't like me as a person. I think if we concentrate on that fear too much, it will consume us. You have to have confidence in who you are and know that people enjoy being around you just because of who you are. If I can keep that in mind it eases my pain and helps me believe that if circumstances were different, my T would be my friend. But regardless of weather she wants to be my friend or not, it is simply just isn't a role she can fill for me.

Good luck,
- SBRAHP

Thanks Stuck,
I'm so glaad to know that I am not the only one who is dealing with these feelings. I scheduled a double hour with her tomorrow and plan to discuss all of this with her. (as soon as I grow the balls) Actually, I think tonight I will write down what I want to say. I think after reading so much here, and thinking about this, I am ready to admit to her that I think of her as more of my mother than anything. My mother and I were very, very close, and she has been gone six years now. I miss her so very much, and really felt that I needed her so much in the last few years. I feel I should not have gone through the death of my husband without my mother here for me. And then being dumped, as well as sexually assaulted last year. I needed my mom. And my T has been there, and can be so very comforting, and wise, and a bit like my mom. I realize that she isn't old enough to be my actual mother, more of an older sister.
I still fear that she will leave me, and how will I go on without her. I've lost too many people that I love, I just cannot bear to lose her yet.
She scolded me somewhat yesterday, when I told her I was afraid of losing her. She said I should stop mourning a loss that hasn't happened yet. I understand her point, but it's not easy, especially since we have a very limited relationship.
So - tonight I will write out my feelings and hope & pray that tomorrow goes well.
Thanks for all of the support everyone.
L

I saw my T last week for a double session, and she knew I wanted to talk about the whole transference thing. Her comment at first was, "Do I sit in the dentist chair and wonder about his family?". Well, no I don't, but I do know my dentist's wife's name, and how many kids they have. I also only see my dentist once or twice a year,and I certainly don't share my most intimate thoughts with him. I don't call him when I feel suicidal, or cry to my dentist about how lonely and sad I am. My dentist has never hugged me after a visit either, and I have never sent him a text. The whole relationship is different, so I felt the comparison was out of line.I also felt that a lot of her comments were just kind of, psych 101 jargon. I know I must seem like I am whining. But then this week, she also texted me twice asking for recipes, as she knows I love, love, love to cook. Why would she ask me when she could go on-line and find the recipes just as easily? This is what confuses me so. I'm afraid to challenge her on this though, as then she may stop, and I do enjoy the interaction with her.
It just makes it harder for me.
I've been sad this week as well, as my son recently moved out, and this weekend I had to have one of my kitties put down, and my son took the other one to his new place. My T has been so kind about this. The other day in fact, while speaking to her on the phone, she commented about something that I had e-mailed her,about how she sometimes yells at me. She explained that doesn't do that with most of her patients. Almost as if I am more dear to her and she wants me to learn & grow.It's hard to explain the way she did, and I may have read the whole conversation wrong. I don't know, I'm sure I'm all wrong on all this. I'm still trying. I just wish it didn't have to be like this.
Ok - thanks all for letting me post and share these difficult emotions.
L

quote:

"Do I sit in the dentist chair and wonder about his family?".

This offends me! She is not a dentist. You don't ask your T to clean your teeth! Also, in your previous post, you said she scolded you for gieving a loss that hasn't happened. You have had A LOT of loss recently. She needs to be more understanding of that.

Maybe I'm hearing these comments out of context but these are not professional comments. And then to call you for a recipe?? Something is not right here.

Just my opinion. Keep talking here though. I know this hurts. Hang in there.

-SBRAHP

Gargyrle,

I should also say, congratulating for getting this off your chest. Job well done. I know it doesn't make the pain go away but it IS a step in the right direction. I hope your T can recognize what you really need or I hope you can find someone that does.

-SBRAHP

Ugh, yeah, the dentist comparison is WAY off. My H tried to do this when I was explaining my T transference to him, to say, "I don't see how it's any different than your relationship with Dr. _" (my GP). Um...hello?

Thankss SBRAHP & Yaku.
The thing that really sucks about all this, is that I am at this point in time,really trying to rebuild my life. When my husband passed away I was unemployed, so my financial situation has changed greatly from what it was when I was married. I am now in a new career, my son moved out, so I have the whole empty nest thing going on, and just trying to create a new life for myself. I find who I think is the best therapist I have ever had, seriously, and I end up feeling more messed up at times because of my darn attachment to her.
I think she is probably the smartest woman I have ever met, and the work she has me doing is so good for me, BUT, there are times I feel that she can be so cruel.
She says I'm a "drama queen", and that hurts. She thinks I don't take myself seriously enough. I get a lot of what she is saying, but I just wish it didn't have to suck so much to hear the truth. I know you guys might think this sounds abusive or unprofessional, but she has really helped me make great strides in my life in the last year, and I am here and alive to say so, thanks to her.
Ok - enough said for tonight, I feel like I'm just whining here.
When I told her I found this forum, she said it would be okay as long as I was seeing/reading success stories here. She doesn't want me slipping backwards. I can see her point, but this forum is so necessary to vent. Thanks all.
Gargyrle - L

Gargyrle - I can relate to you feeling like your T is wonderful, but that the attachment messes you up more. I'm in that same place.

However, I am VERY concerned about her calling you a drama queen. That is just...sorry to say and if I'm being too harsh here...NOT OK. This would send me into the worst sort of shame spiral and possibly very harmful behavior toward myself if I were told that by my T. I grew up with a mom who was very unstable and would constantly deride any needs I had, manipulate me, convince herself of a different reality, accuse me of lying, of being "too much" or "not enough." I already always feel as if I am overreacting or exaggerating or manipulating or lying even though consciously I know I haven't intentionally done these things. And even if I were, there would be a reason behind it, some sort of damage that were causing it. You know what my T says when I say that I worry he thinks I am overreacting or being drama, etc.? He says, "You know what? It really has never once crossed my mind that you are lying or exaggerating." He says, if anything, I tend to under-react. He says he believes me. He says he doesn't think I'm drama. He's not a perfect T. There are other ways he slips up. And honestly, my emotions sometimes are really dramatic, but T compassionately sees it as pent up pain that has accumulated and grown through repression that needs desperately to be released. He understands that if he is judging my pain as too much, I will go back to crushing myself trying to be "better" than my hurts. He invites me to just be who I honestly am. That is what a T should be doing. It doesn't mean your T doesn't help you in other ways, but I am extremely concerned that things like yelling at you or calling you drama seem to be big red flags that something in your therapy is about your T and her feelings and not about you and your needs...

hi,
I don't know if what I experience is tranference or what it is but it scares me.
I have been seeing my therapist for years. She is very good with boundaries etc. I am too. And I have no desire to go home with her or anything like that.
Still, I know things about her she doesn't know. I'm not a stalker but because of where I am it's been easy to see where she lives and as a result I"ve seen her outside of work. I know enough about her....I know a bit about her child and when I think about her and her family, my heart drops. It breaks my heart.
Don't get me wrong I am not a threat. I wish only the best for her but it hurts to see her with her family or to even think about it.
Is this tranference?

Hi Katy333,
Welcome to the forums. What you're feeling does sound like transference. It's hard without knowing your background, exactly what is happening, but in therapy, the therapist takes on a symbolic role, so many of our more powerful feelings and unmet needs can be evoked in our relationship with them. So your pain when thinking about her with her family may be the pain of wishing you had had a parent that had cared for you the way your T does now. So when you see her family, you are seeing someone have what you didn't and of course, it hurts.

It's also why you want to know more, it's the very natural desire to be closer to your T. Have you spoken to your T about these feelings? Bringing this up in therapy can be a very important part of healing. Because what you experiencing in therapy is often a reflection of how you do all of your relationships but now you have an opportunity to examine what is going on and learn about yourself with a safe person. I would really urge you to talk about what you're feeling with your therapist.

And again, without knowing your background, I may be totally off base, but their is a post on my blog you might find helpful. I've included the link below. Read it and see if it fits with your experience or not. There have been a lot of threads about transference and attachment. I would recommend doing a search (use the "Find" button at the top of the page) on both transference and attachment and reading some old threads. Feel free to continue asking questions, there's just a lot of good stuff that could really help in the meantime. Looking forward to getting to know you.

Disorganized Attachment or Why you think you're crazy but really aren't

AG

Hi,

I dont know if anyone still reads this thread, but I just read through it entirely and thought i should post my story hoping it would make me feel better. I apologize for it being long. I am too suffering from transference. I am in love with my therapist, not sexually, but more in a i cant live without her way. I have social anxiety disorder and therefore dont really have friends, and am afraid to speak up in public and talk about my feelings. So really, im alone most of the time. However, with my therapist, i feel so much safer and i think ive become addicted to her and therapy itself. I just feel so good when im there, and its come to a point where its the only thing that gets me excited. Im always wondering if she thinks about me when im not with her the same way i think about her, and the thought that she probably doesnt really hurts to think about.

Ive been seeing my therapist for about a year and a half now, and i find that ive been more depressed lately than usual because of this transference. Every time i leave a session with her, im always very sad and depressed for a day or so, however, because of the holiday break, i wont be seeing her for a couple of weeks now. Its only been a couple of days since i last saw her but im really struggling with this. I miss her sooo much and cant stop thinking about her. I dont know what to do. I feel heart broken, and i cant snap myself out of it.

It took a while, but i was able to bring up this topic in one of our sessions a couple of weeks ago, and she took it very well. She is too kind. She said she had a feeling that i was going through this but thought that it would be better if i brought it up when im ready. She also mentioned that it may be a long process to get to the bottom of.

Anyways, i dont know what to do now. I dont have anyone or anything to comfort me. I asked her if it would be alright for me to email her every once in a while when im down, but she said she would prefer if we kept the therapy in the room, i dont know if i should take that as an insult or not. Despite that request, i emailed her a week and a half ago because i went through a very rough patch, but she never responded. I was devastated. I asked her about it the last time i saw her and she said that she read my email but doesnt want me to become dependent on her to make me happy whenever im feeling down (this was the second time i emailed her in 2 weeks). I told her that all i wanted was a little acknowledgement that my email was read at the very least. She said that she reads all her emails, but she wont respond to most. We sort of went back and forth on this and agreed to talk about it some more next time. Anyways, now would be a time when i would email her. I cant get these thoughts out of my head and dont know where to turn and am desperate, but im afraid to email her because i dont want to put myself in that disappointed position i was before, plus i want to respect her requests. I know though that getting a response back from her would mean so much to me.

What do you think i should do? and how do you guys deal with the pain from transference?

Thanks for reading!
Josh

Hi Josh! Welcome to the forum! This thread is near and dear to my heart, because I also found this forum by reading this thread first, after searching the internet for anything on transference. So you are definitely among people who "get it".

That said, I'm sorry you are in so much pain. I am not currently dealing with transference feelings (at least not with a T), but when I first found this forum, I was experiencing very similar feelings as you are now, with the T I was working with at the time, and struggling to find a way to tell him and try to work through it (which is why I was searching the net in the first place).

One thing I was encouraged to hear is that your T already suspected you were feeling this way, and was waiting for you to bring it up with her. Also encouraging is that she believes it might take a while to get to the bottom of. That makes me think she has an understanding of attachment issues.

But then, I was a little concerned to hear that she doesn't want you to get "too dependent" on her. What I've learned on this site and through my own experience is that those of us with attachment issues actually heal when we are allowed to become somewhat dependent for a time (within reasonable boundaries, of course). However, all T's have the right to set their own boundaries for their own reasons, so no, I wouldn't take her boundary of "keeping therapy in the room" as an insult, but rather, just a boundary she has set for herself. What you will need to decide is whether that will work out for you or not.

However, I believe that it hurts like crazy. And depending on what you need right now, her approach may or may not end up working out for you in the long run. There are therapists who would respond differently to your needs for out of session contact. Please keep talking here and reading other people's stories and asking questions, and hopefully you will find some shared experiences that might help clarify your needs and choices regarding your therapy. This site has been invaluable in helping me that way.

Peace,
SG

Hi Strummergirl! Thanks for the reply.

Im really glad i found this forum cause i too have been googling transference for a while now, but wasnt able to come up with much. I also posted my story on another forum but got no reply, so im off to a much better start here.

What do you mean that i would have to decide whether the no email thing will work out for me or not? Do you mean that if i decide that it doesnt work for me that i should leave and find a new therapist? I couldnt imagine ever doing that. This therapist is employed by the school i go to, so eventually i will have to leave her when i graduate but it wont be any sooner. Im dreading the day when i wont be able to see her again. She is the perfect therapist for me. Because of my anxiety, it took me a while to get comfortable with her, and i still am fairly quiet when im with her. But she knows exactly how to speak to me. She speaks quietly, shes warm, and shes understanding. She is the only person ive ever opened up to, and the only person i remotely trust. I have confidence and self-esteem issues though so im always wondering whether she actually cares about me or not, so i wish she would do a little more to show me that she does. (like allowing me to email her)

Do you think its appropriate to ask her if she would be willing to change her policy a little bit for me about emailing? I feel as if im a special case because of my situation, and that the benefit would be much greater if she would just allow me to email her when i really need it and perhaps email me back with one or two lines of encouragement. I understand where she is coming from, but i dont get how me emailing her once in a while, and her sending me a very short message back can do harm. Just knowing that i have that safety net if things go really bad is reassuring. My last session with her, i tried to explain to her my side of the story and how much it hurt to wait all week and not receive a reply back from my email. Next time we meet we are supposed to continue that convo and im hoping i can get her to understand how much it really means to me and perhaps convince her to try it my way, but im not sure if thats appropriate and how i should go about doing that.

What do you think? and do you have any advice with dealing with the emotional pain. I need something to help me through these next couple of weeks.

Again thanks for replying!
Josh

Hi Josh,
Welcome to the forums. I am glad that you've found us as we really do get what you are going through. I am sorry, I know this can get incredibly painful. Like SG, I was glad to hear that your T is so accepting of your feelings. It was very courageous of you to tell her you felt that way and I am glad that she reacted so well. Therapy is a place where you should be safe to talk about how you are feeling.

I have worked through my transference with my T (mainly, there are bits and pieces here and there I'm still working on) and volutarily stopped going regularly about a 16 months ago. His door is still open and I go back probably about every 4-6 weeks, basically anytime I run into something I'd like help with.

My T had different boundaries about outside contact (he still allows me unlimited emailing and calling, although again, I don't do so nearly as often now) as he felt like it was important to be able to access your attachment figure when you needed them, you never could tell when the need would occur. So there was a long period where I was pretty dependent on him, but I did outgrow it and do not need him in the same way anymore.

The best advice I can give you is to keep going back and talking about how you're feeling. All of it, the pain, the longings, the wanting to email, etc. It was as I talked about what came up for me in the relationship that I learned about my underlying beliefs and traced them to their roots so I could learn to change them. I do want to encourage you that it is possible to work through this and heal, although I don't want to mislead you, it was very painful at times and the hardest work I've ever done.

As SG said, there's a lot of good material here on the forum, I would search on both "transference" and "attachment." Also, I write a lot on these topics on my blog, you may find some of what I write helpful. The link is in my signature.

And please feel free to ask questions, there are a lot of very knowledgeable people here with a lot of experience.

AG

Hi AG! Thanks for replying!!!

I think i will take your advice and discuss all these feelings the next time i see her. I told her about my transference, but never really went into too much detail about the pain, longing wanting to email...etc, cause i was too embarrassed. Now i see that this is something i will have to bring up if i want to properly deal with this, im nervous but also a little excited to bring it up. It sucks that ill have to wait a couple of weeks though before i can talk about it. Keeping all these thoughts and feelings inside is not fun.

Ill take a look at the material on the forum about transference and attachment, any advice on where to start?

Also, do you think i should be insulted by this? I asked my therapist in our last session if she was willing to see me one more time during the week before the break because i had a lot of stuff on my mind that i felt i needed to talk about before the holidays. She said that she only sees students/patients more than once a week for exceptional circumstances. This hurt cause i felt i needed another session and because i felt like this was an exceptional circumstance. I didnt have a session the week before cause of exams, and because of the whole email thing took up our whole last session, i wasnt able to talk about the other things bothering me at all. It just hurts when she doesnt consider me a special case and always denies my requests. Should i take these things as a sign that she doesnt really like me and doesnt want to see me or hear from me? cause thats what it feels like. Like she doesnt care about me and im just another student she sees and forgets about the second i leave the room.

Thanks for reading!
Josh

Hi Josh,

So glad to hear that you are finding this site helpful.

quote:

What do you mean that i would have to decide whether the no email thing will work out for me or not? Do you mean that if i decide that it doesnt work for me that i should leave and find a new therapist?

That would be one option (although a really painful one, I understand). Another option would be to accept her boundaries and tell her how that feels to you and work through that in the therapy with her. As AG said, it sounds like she's really accepting about hearing your feelings, so I hope you can talk to her about it.

quote:

Do you think its appropriate to ask her if she would be willing to change her policy a little bit for me about emailing?

Personally I think as patients we should be able to ask for whatever it is we think we need from our T's. I don't ever think asking is inappropriate. However, our T's have the right to say "no" to what we are asking for. It sounds like you already have asked her to change her boundary for you - which I think it was okay to ask - but she has said no, and now you are feeling hurt and insulted. At this point, I think it would be okay to talk about how you are feeling about her answer and explore that in your therapy, so that you can learn more about yourself. But to continue pressuring her to change her boundary - no matter how justified it may seem to you - personally I don't think that's the right focus. Perhaps if you confide more to her about how painful this is to you, talking only about your feelings, she may decide on her own that your case is exceptional and then change the boundary for you. But to focus directly on changing her boundary - I do not think that is the right focus. But that is only my opinion.

I really really do understand how painful this is, Josh. As for dealing with the emotional pain, reading and posting on this forum helped with that immensely. Just being able to talk with people who understood how I was feeling, to feel "not alone" in this, helped tremendously. Finding a T with whom I could talk about anything helped a great deal, too. Eventually, after a couple of years with her, and still having a considerable amount of emotional pain, I decided to try an antidepressant, and that has proven to be a really really good decision for me. It has allowed me to internalize many many truths that I was told or realized intellectually in therapy, but could never absorb emotionally before. It has made so many things "click" in the way I only wished it would before. I now suspect that I've had clinical depression probably all my life, but for whatever reason, was not describing my feelings in the right way in order to be properly diagnosed. But that is no one's fault, just the way it worked out. At some point you may want to consider that as an option, too.

Good luck continuing the convo in your next appointment! Let us know how it goes.

Peace,
SG

Hi SG,

Thanks for replying! Having you and Attachment Girl reading and replying to my posts means a lot to me. I can use all the advice and guidance i can get.

I understand what you are saying about accepting her boundaries, i just find it very tough. I respect her boundaries, i dont want to be a bastard and go against her requests, i would actually feel very guilty if i did that. But at the same time, i have a hard time accepting it. It feels as if i need these exceptions to function, and without her allowing me to email as an example, its just making me feel worse and more depressed. How can you truly accept something when its doing harm to you?

As for antidepressants, ive been on a couple different ones over the last 2 years to help with my anxiety and depression, but i still havent been able to find one that properly helps both. Its frustrating but im still trying.

Ill definitely keep you guys updated on my next convo with my T.

Thanks
Josh

quote:

Also, do you think i should be insulted by this? I asked my therapist in our last session if she was willing to see me one more time during the week before the break because i had a lot of stuff on my mind that i felt i needed to talk about before the holidays. She said that she only sees students/patients more than once a week for exceptional circumstances. This hurt cause i felt i needed another session and because i felt like this was an exceptional circumstance. I didnt have a session the week before cause of exams, and because of the whole email thing took up our whole last session, i wasnt able to talk about the other things bothering me at all. It just hurts when she doesnt consider me a special case and always denies my requests. Should i take these things as a sign that she doesnt really like me and doesnt want to see me or hear from me? cause thats what it feels like. Like she doesnt care about me and im just another student she sees and forgets about the second i leave the room.

Josh,
How you're feeling is totally understandable but I think it's more about your past than actually about your therapist. She is actually holding good boundaries and keeping a consistent frame around therapy. A therapist actually had to be careful to treat all their clients the same as making one "special" can be an indication that they are letting their own feelings affect YOUR therapy which isn't good for anyone.

One of our very strong needs as children is to feel special, and know that we are very important to our caregivers. If we did not get that, we are still looking for it. So your T refusing to make an exception for you may be evoking deprivations and unfulfilled longings from your childhood and leaving you feeling like you don't matter. But giving you special treatment could hold out a promise she could NOT fulfill of finally providing you what you didn't get as a child. It is less damaging to hear "no" in the first place than to experience even an "implied" broken promise.

There's a post on my blog Therapy isn't enough that might explain this better.

As far as getting started on the forum, I would use the brown "Find" button at the top of the forum page and perform two searches. One on the word "attachment" and one on the word "transference" then browse through the search results and look for stuff you relate to. It's also perfectly ok to keep asking specific questions.

AG

Thanks AG! It feels so much better hearing someone else who is not emotionally invested in my situation explain things rationally. While it still hurts to think about it, hearing that these type of boundaries from therapists and my feelings about them are normal makes me feel somewhat better.

I really enjoyed your post on your blog on this subject as well. A lot of the stuff you were going through i can relate to and am glad to know that you managed to fight through it, so there is still hope for me yet .

Im a little nervous to keep on posting more questions, i feel like im starting to sound like a broken record and a pest. Its my nature to obsess over certain things over and over again, and id hate to wear out my welcome here.

Thanks,
Josh

quote:

Originally posted by Strummergirl:
But then, I was a little concerned to hear that she doesn't want you to get "too dependent" on her. What I've learned on this site and through my own experience is that those of us with attachment issues actually heal when we are allowed to become somewhat dependent for a time (within reasonable boundaries, of course).

Hi everybody,

I spent a lot of time the last day or so reading past threads on transference and attachment hoping it would cheer me up. I would say it helped a little in some way, but also made me worry more. The above quote worries me. I noticed that in a lot of threads concerning transference and attachment, it was said that therapists sometimes have to allow us to attach to them in order for us properly heal, pushing us a way could possibly make things worse. (my wording is probably not so good). Anyways, im really worried that my therapist may not realize this or just doesnt care and that she could end up making things worse, or i could be stuck feeling like this forever. Is it possible to heal from the transference/attachment without being allowed to feel the secure attachment that i need to heal? I mean, i understand that my therapist has her own boundaries. She never really mentioned if i can call her or not (i would be too afraid to anyways), but she did specify that she would prefer to keep the therapy in the room, and that i dont email her. She never said i couldnt email her, but she did say she may not respond to my email. (so emailing her and not getting a response would make things worse). I feel i need something more in order to feel better, something more frequent or ill never feel better. If she doesnt see it my way though, i dont know if i can or ever will feel better.

Anyways, im sort of rambling on here, i hope you can understand what im trying to say. With the boundaries my therapist set, am i doomed to feel like this forever because she wont allow me to attach to her for a short period? Does it sound like she might not be well qualified to help me deal with this? If i dont get that extra attention, can i still heal properly even if i cant feel the attachment i feel i need? Help me please!

I hope i properly articulated my problem and question

Thanks for reading,
Josh

Hi Josh,

You were very articulate with your concerns and I'm sorry you are feeling so worried. I want to apologize for giving the impression that what I described is the only way to heal. I honestly don't know if you have attachment issues or not, Josh, and I also don't know that what I've described is the only way to heal from it. It's just what has made the most sense to me, in my situation, and I've done my best to try and get that "kind" of therapy. However, I've not been able to get it, exactly. Still, I've made a lot of progress. My therapy and healing have not followed the exact same path as anyone else's, but that is to be expected, that we each have our own unique needs, and each person's path of healing is going to look a bit different.

Ultimately, I really think your next step is to talk to your T about everything you've been thinking/feeling, as you are ready to share it with her. As you do that, what you need from your therapy will be clearer. I don't think there are any guarantees that she is qualified to help you. There are several of us here who have had to switch T's mid-stream when we found out our T's were not qualified to help us. It does hurt like crazy...but ultimately I found a T who was much better equipped to help me, and others have, too. On the other hand, your T may be qualified and able to help you once you are more open and honest with her. There is no way to know except to try. I'm sorry it's so scary, and again, I'm sorry if I made your fear worse. I only meant to reassure you that there is nothing wrong with feeling like you want that, and it may be what you need. But then again, it may not be. Hopefully your T can help you sort it out. We are here to support you, either way.

Peace,
SG

Thanks SG!!! I could never imagine leaving my therapist so im praying that she is properly equipped to deal with this. Is there a difference between transference and attachment? I know im suffering from transference, so i assume that means im having attachment issues. Could i be wrong? I feel like im having attachment issues but am not 100% sure after what you said. So i hope you or someone else can give me a proper definition for it with examples, and how it differs from transference.

Ive also seen some mixed responses to this, but is transference considered a good thing or a bad thing? Does the fact that i reached this high level of transference indicate progress in therapy? Ive read on this forum from a number of people that transference is a positive thing, i just dont see how with all the negative emotions and pain im going through. So im wondering if there is something im missing that would allow me to look at it more optimistically.

Thanks again SG!
Josh

Hi Josh,

I'm sorry I didn't respond sooner, the last few days have been kind of crazy!

Your questions are all really good ones. The thing is, I can only answer you from my experience. I can't diagnose you or tell you what you "should" do, so I'm hesitant to try and answer your questions. I really think your T should be the one to do that.

ShrinkLady has an explanation of Attachment Issues on her main site. She also has an explanation of transference in psychotherapy. I am by no means any kind of authority on the subject, but my understanding is that my attachment issues (if I have any) will make themselves known, at least in part, by the kinds of assumptions I make about my relationship with others based on my past experience(or "transference"). When I do this in real life, it may or may not be clear how I'm doing this. But hopefully in therapy my T does not "react" to what I do, but helps me see what I am doing so I can learn more about myself and then, hopefully, help me make the changes I want to make, if any.

I don't think transference is good or bad, it's just something we all do in everyday life. We develop expectations of what will happen in new situations based on what's happened in past situations. So if we grew up learning that getting close to someone meant getting hurt, then we may develop that expectation with everyone and become extremely reluctant to get close to anyone. But we are human and made for connection, so eventually that gets painful, too. Then we may end up in therapy needing to untangle all of this and learn (or relearn) how to get close enough to get the connection with others we need.

I hope this helps a little. I feel extremely underqualified to say much more about any of this, as I don't really know much at all about you or your particular situation. I really hope you can risk bringing all of this up with your T and give her the chance to work through this with you as she knows you much better than I do. But we are here for support and encouragement as you go through it!

SG

Thanks SG!

Hi Josh and welcome,

From my experience, it's hard to say if transference is a positive or a negative. To a child who has no father and finds a father figure in a therapist, then it can have a very positive effect. On the other hand, as many on this board can attest to, in can also be so painful. I have strong feeling towards my former T. I miss her so much. I didn't feel comfortable talking to my former T about transference at all. So I sought out a new T. When I finally told my former T about my feelings and how I had been seeing a new T, she suggested I continue seeing my new T. I was crushed! I wanted her to work through my transference with me, but instead, she asked me to go away. I thought, how is this possible? I thought she cared about me? I should have voiced these questions but I didn't. I tucked the feelings away and left her office extremely hurt.

I lived with the pain for 7 unbearable months. There were so many negative feelings that came along with thoughts of my former T. I thought, she's sitting there laughing at me. She must be so relieved to be done with me. In working through the pain with my new T, my new T suggested I go back and confront my former T. I should get answers to my questions. So I did. I expected my former T to lay it all out there. I thought she was going to tell me how happy she was to get rid of me. What a relief it was to have me out of her office and life. What I found when I had this meeting with my former T was a caring and compassionate woman who only wanted what was best for me. She had no idea that I left so hurt. She apologized profusely and told me she was here for me if I needed her. I could tell that she did care about me. We cleared the air. I still miss her very much, but all those negative feelings have been replaced with positive ones. When I think of her, I think of someone who really wants to help me. Her door is open to me but I continue on with my new T.

My point is, I was told on this forum that the pain does lessen but the transference never really goes away. Now that's a hard pill to swallow. When I was first told this, I thought, you mean I will feel this miserable forever? The answer is No. I'll admit, I have been started on anti-depressants and that has helped. But I DO feel better. I can function now. I don't cry when ever I think of my former T. Sometimes I even smile when I think of her.

I'm not quite sure how, if and when I will ever let my former T go. But I am living my life again and feel good about it.

I hope that helps. Sorry so long. I types this on my phone so I apologize for any misspellings or auto words.

-SBR

-SBR

(((((SBR)))))

I'm so glad that you went back to your former T and now feel better about the way things ended. I'm sorry that it's all still so painful though.

Liese

Thanks for telling me your story SBR. Good for you going back to your former T after months, that was very brave of you. I doubt id have the guts to do something like that.

It scares me to think that the pain of transference really doesnt go away. I cant imagine living like this forever. How long would you say it took for it to become at least manageable? Also, besides the anti-depressants, did anything else change in your life that might have affected the strength of the transference, making it more tolerable. Perhaps you found a new friend/partner that helped fill part of the void. I ask this because im currently on anti-depressants as well, so what im feeling right now wont be getting more tolerable from my meds. I am also pretty alone, so im worried that without any other type of relationships outside of therapy, the chances of my transference getting better are slimmer since i really have no one else to distract me, or fill that attachment i need.

Thanks,
Josh

Hi Josh,

I believe that I am starting to feel the pain of transfernece lessen right now. It's always hard to say for sure because it's such a slow and gradual process. Josh, it takes time. Give yourself time to heal. The pain won't last forever, so I'm told. I definately feel better now than I did 2 months ago.

Everybody's journey through transfernce will be different because everybody has a different situation that they need to heal from. One of the most difficult things about this pain is that there is no road map to find healing. There is no recipe to fix it. You have to find your own way. But this entire group here on this forum is here to listen whenever you need. This group was one of the biggest and most important aspects to my healing.

As for my situation, I am married. My marriage wasn't going well. I was in pain for a long long time. So when I found support through marriage counseling, I found someone who I thought could cure the pain I was in. My marriage counselor understood me. She sympathized with me. I did not want a divorce. But I felt that I did not love my wife anymore. I loved my marriage T. I still kind of feel that way. I too, felt alone. My situation was not going to change. I either had to find a way to fall back in love with my wife or live in pain for the rest of my life. And honestly, I'm still working on that.

Josh, you need to stay positive. Things will change. If you have nobody except for your T right now, then their is still an opportunity for that void to be filled. You could bump into somebody today and it may make you think..."Therapist who?", "transference what?".

I hope that helps.

-SBR

PS:
(((((Liese))))))
So good to hear from you. I hope you are doing well!

quote:

Originally posted by StuckBetweenRock and HardPlace:
I hope that helps.

-SBR

It does! Thanks a bunch SBR!!!

Hi guys!

I dont want to continue sounding like a pest, but i have one more thing to ask. I took the advice of someone else earlier in this thread and decided to write a letter to my therapist about all the thoughts that are going through my mind right now, transference and everything else, and the plan is to give it to her the next time i see her (as long as i dont chicken out). This way if i forget to say something next session, or run out of time, she could still read everything that was going through my mind. Anyways, the letter is kind of long, and im not sure if its good or not and could use some feedback, its pretty personal, and some things in it i havent discussed here, but i want to make sure its good. Would anyone be willing to read it and let me know what they think?

Hi SGJ,
I don't mind reading it at all, but I am wondering when your next session is? I am just concerned I may not be able to get back to you in a timely manner. But feel free to PM me the letter and when you need it back by and I can let you know. Thanks.

AG

Sent. Thanks a bunch. My next session isnt till next Thursday so you have plenty of time.

If anyone else would like to read it, let me know.

Hi everyone,

I can see that there haven't been any new posts on this thread in a while, but this is the thread that helped me find this whole website, and the main reason I went looking for answers online.

I've been in therapy for about six months, and I think I've been feeling transference with my therapist. I did not understand what was going on with my emotions, so I did some research online and finally found out about "transference." I am thankful to everyone on here for showing me that I am not crazy, that these feelings are normal and happen to lots of people. That in itself is comforting.

Lately I have been having a lot of anxiety (in general and) about my life (finding a job in my field, dealing with a relationship that is ending, not having much of a social life, etc..) I find that I feel much better after a therapy session, and this seems to be the only time I feel good at all.

So therapy (and my therapist) is ALL I can think about. I think about my therapist every day. I have spent a lot of time googling her (all searches always come up with nothing, and yet I keep it up.) I have driven to her office on a couple occasions when I did not have an appt scheduled. I can't even explain why I did this, it's as if I had no control over my actions. Once I was there I got terrified that she would walk out at any moment, see me, and wonder what I was doing there, so I left quickly. I felt like such a stalker.

I feel an intense curiosity about her and her life outside of therapy. What would she say and/or do if I were to see her in the grocery store, for instance? We live in the same town so that is a real possibility. Would she be the same warm, caring person she is when we are in session? Or would she brush me aside (I don't think so, but I sometimes wonder if she is genuinely interested in me, or if I am just "part of the job.") I guess I suffer from low self esteem, as well as anxiety.

I find I am struggling with the one-sided-ness of our conversations. She does share some things about herself from time to time, when it will help her make a point or show me that I am not alone, etc. So I do not feel like she is deliberately hiding anything from me. I have just never asked her about herself, because I didn't know what (if anything) would be appropriate, and I would hate to have her tell me she didn't want to share something.

I do not want anything sexual. And I know I can't be her friend, but I still want more from her emotionally. I think. I don't actually understand all of what I am feeling so I don't know exactly what would make it better. But I feel like I want to go to therapy every day. I haven't asked if we could start doing two sessions per week instead of just one. I'm not sure if that would be acceptable and I don't think I could handle it right now if she said no.

I don't understand these feelings! I did not have a traumatic childhood, I was not neglected or abused, or anything I can think of where these feelings could be coming from. I am frustrated, as one person in this thread said, that no one told me that this would (or could) happen. It is unlike anything I have ever experienced...very strange and unexpected, and yet very intense.

I am afraid to tell my therapist about these feelings because I just can't imagine talking so candidly about such intense feelings in the present- it's easier to talk about the past. It's also easier to talk about other people or other things rather than what, or who, is right in front of me. And then the fear of not knowing how she will respond. I believe she would respond in an appropriate manner....I think she is well educated and experienced and therefore probably has had clients experience this before. And I realize that from what I have read on here that this is probably most important to talk about, but I cannot see myself doing it. It is too scary. And embarassing. How do you work up to it?

Any responses would be greatly appreciated....thanks! Sorry so long, this is my first time on any type of forum...I just had to get these feelings out somehow.

Hi Coco...

I'm glad you found us and that what you read here was helpful. I am also pleased that you decided to post. I know it can be scary the first time but it will be worth it to join the community and share and get lots of support and understanding.

As you may have learned, all of what you feel and what you are doing we have all done too in one way or another. When you want to be near your T or you search on line for information you are proximity seeking... you long to be near her because this makes you feel calm and more secure. I believe she has become an attachment figure for you. You say you didn't have a traumatic childhood but perhaps you did not have a proper attachment to your parents/caregivers and this wound is unhealed and why you are reacting in this way regarding your T.

Have you read any of the threads on here about attachment? I would also recommend highly AG's (Attachment Girl) blog where she writes so well about feelings that develop in therapy with your therapist. There is a link for this on any of her posts.

I know it's scary to discuss all of this with your T. I would suggest that maybe you just ask her what she knows about attachment or attachment injury or insecure or unresolved attachments. If you feel that you need to be in therapy twice per week and that you feel you are working and have a lot to discuss or address then I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for twice a week sessions. I see my T twice a week and it really helps me to get from session to session.

I hope to hear more of your story and why you decided to go to therapy and I also hope you find support and reassurance here on the Board.

TN

Hey Coco!

I am feeling so uninspired right now that I really can't think of anything useful to tell you. Umm, transference sucks! Talking about it is really scary and usually feels humiliating to me. But...it can be done. My T says that when something is hard to talk about, it's OK to spend a while talking about the difficulty of talking itself. Weirdly, I've found this to actually help.

I hope you find lots of help here and certainly most of us know exactly what you are dealing with, which might make it a little more bearable.

Coco, hi.

I've been through some of what you are talking about. And, the feelings actually come and go (I've been with my T 21 months). They got pretty intense at some point in my early therapy and I did not talk about it with T (which I regret). I think it was just 3 months ago that I finally told her, "I just feel so attached to you." My T responded, "Why do you think that is?" In talking to her about my feelings, the intensity lessened, which was good for me, because it affected my daily life, thinking about her so much. I also had great worry about losing her (i.e. in ending therapy). She also comforted me by saying that her door is always open, and even if I took a break from therapy (or "ended" it) I could always go back.

quote:

How do you work up to it?

I think you may just do it when you feel ready. When you trust your T enough. When you are comfortable. It may just take time. I think it is a good sign that at the end of the session you feel pretty good.

Hi True North, BLT, and Ninn. Thank you for such speedy responses, and for such encouraging words and advice!

Have you read any of the threads on here about attachment?

I have read a bit about attachment, and honestly I don't really understand the difference between attachment and transference. They seem very similar to me, and similarly upsetting. I was not expecting anything like this to happen. I am still trying to just accept the fact that I even have these feelings, and how can they be real when I hardly know anything about my T?

I hope to hear more of your story and why you decided to go to therapy and I also hope you find support and reassurance here on the Board.

I started therapy originally because I was frustrated at always trying to lose weight and never reaching my goal. I am not severely overweight, and would often come within 5 or 10 pounds of my goal and then everything would change and I would gain weight again. I have realized since I started therapy that for me it is not really about the weight at all, but rather about being happy with my body and myself the way I am.

My T pointed out to me that I have low self esteem, and self confidence, so that is one thing I have been working on with her. I have also learned that I have issues with codependency, and this is another problem for me that I am trying to work on. But again, I don't understand where it came from as I was not abused as a child and there have never been alcoholics in my life. The one thing I can think of is that my mom has always been codependent/anxious/overprotecting/I-don't-want-to-disappoint-her. So maybe I just learned it all from her....that could maybe explain the attachment issues too I guess...

I also have a lot of anxiety, which seemed to get better for a while, but now that I am feeling this way about my T it has come back fairly strong. Whenever I even consider talking to her about this my chest tightens and heart starts to race and I have to try to just breathe through it. It's not sudden like panic attacks, it's more like a constant ache that only seems to go away occasionally.

Ultimately, I overeat, or eat comfort or sugary foods in order to try to feel better, so the weight and body issues will probably not be resolved until I am feeling better in general and more steady and grounded with my emotions.

TN[/QUOTE]

I tried reply with quotes from True North, but it didn't quite work right...can anyone tell me how to do this?

Also, BLT mentioned talking about the weirdness of talking. This sounds much more doable to me right now since it is really the talking about it that is freaking me out right now. thanks!

I have a session later today, and I am not planning on bringing up any transference or attachment issues (I am not ready yet), but maybe I will try sometime soon.

Hi Coco,
Welcome to the forums.

In order to quote someone, you click on the quotes button at the top of the reply window (there's a row of brown buttons). that will place the word quote in brackets followed by the word quote preceded by a backslash in brackets. Copy the text you want to quote, then click in the space between the ending bracket of the first quote and the beginning bracket of the ending quote quote] <click here>[/quo (I only used part of it since typing the whole thing would get it parsed). Then paste in the text (Ctrl-V).

As far as transference and attachment, I can see where there is some confusion as often the two go hand in hand. Attachment refers to our relationship to our therapist, in that for some people, the therapist becomes a "stronger, wiser other" upon whom we feel like we can depend to help us feel safe and handle our feelings. Once that attachment starts to form, people with insecure attachment styles tend to "transfer" the dynamics of their earliest interactions with their primary caregivers in childhood on to the relationship with the therapist. The therapeutic relationship functions on two levels: the real and symbolic. The real is about the here and now actual interactions while the symbolic is about the feelings and expectations you bring because of your past. It can be confusing and difficult to sort them out.

I know TN recommended reading my blog (Thanks TN! ) and I really think the article Disorganized Attachment or Why You Think You're Crazy but You Aren't? might really help.

AG

Coco, I have had a hard time too distinguishing between transference and attachment. There is so much overlap between the two.

Attachment can refer to any very close relationship such as a romantic partnership, but is most commonly refers to the relationship between a child and caregiver. Depending on personal history, the style of a therapist, and other factors, many of us form a kind of attachment relationship with our T's. Essentially the reason this happens is that we are trying to get from out T's something that we needed but didn't get from our parents when we were smaller. It doesn't mean you necessarily had an awful childhood. For example, I had a generally happy childhood, but my mother was emotionally volatile when I was little and I didn't feel like I could rely on my parents to be a stable base for me emotionally (they had their own problems), so I attached to my T trying to get this security I didn't have. Other people might have felt their parents didn't fully understand or pay attention to them in some way, or that they didn't do enough to affirm their worth, and look for these things in a T also.

You'll also hear people talk about "secure" versus "insecure" attachment and different attachment "styles." There is only one kind of secure attachment, which means that as a child you felt safe knowing that your caregiver would be there for you. In terms of insecure attachment, it's usually divided into three types: anxious/preoccupied, avoidant/dismissive, and disorganized. Anxious attachment means you behave in a clingy way because you're constantly afraid of your attachment figure not being there for you when needed. Avoidant means that you act as though you don't need close relationships at all, because your caregiver was so unavailable that you simply gave up on the whole thing and became very independent. Disorganized is the rarest type and means that you were actually afraid of your own caregiver (usually because of abuse) and so you weren't sure whether to move towards them to get the comfort of being close to someone, or to avoid them to avoid getting hurt. In practice some people might have a combination of these styles, depending on the circumstance.

Transference basically means that feelings, expectations, or dynamics from a previous relationship get transfered onto someone else, like your T. An example would be that if my parents yelled at me when I cried, I might be afraid to cry in front of my T and expect her to react in the same way. Transference actually happens all the time with people in our lives, but it can become amplified in therapy and therefore be more obvious.

The way these overlap is that if we do become attached to a T, it usually results in a LOT of very strong transference. All our longings, fears, expectations, etc. about our parents from our childhoods tend to play out all over again in our relationship with our T's. And whatever attachment style we had with our parents when we were little will usually transfer to our T's as well.

I hope that helped a little... It can still be really confusing at times.

Hi Coco, welcome to the forums!

Ah transference, been there, done that, got the t-shirt, like they say. Actually I'm still very much there. I've also been seeing my T for 6 months now, but I came across transference feelings sooner than that, maybe 2 months into therapy. Reading about everyone else's experience here helped immensely to feel "normal" and okay about it, having those kind of feelings about your T is so common and actually a sign that therapy is going well! I also suggest you read AG's blog and the threads here related to transference, post if you have questions or doubts, being informed about it is the best thing you can do to stop being afraid of it. I remember feeling "cheated" because I never knew feeling this way about a T could happen! It can be really scary.

But the truth is you and your T are both in a relationship, a therapeutic one yes, but nevertheless a relationship, of course people have feelings about it. I think about him ALL the time too, he has a little sofa in my right side lobe

Driving past a T's office outside therapy times is something I've read loads here, you're certainly not alone on that. The most I've done was googling him and finding his website (he asked before if I've seen it so I think he actually wanted me to look him up) and some of his articles. I ended up blocking his site from my computer, I don't want to be tempted to look him up. Sometimes I'm also scared that maybe one of these days these feelings will go out of proportion and I'll lose control/go completely insane and invade his privacy and behave inappropriately towards him, maybe he'll call the police and get angry at me and I'll never see him again. But I think this is a thought that comes from the fear of being rejected after exposing myself and my feelings to him.

Even if my feelings for him escalated to a point where I can't help myself and my actions I certainly wouldn't be the first nor the last.

I've never told him directly about my transference but I have mentioned that I do like to talk to him and that I find him interesting, and I found out that talking about it does help to regulate these emotions.

Best of luck to you Coco, and I hope I'll see you around

Thank you AG for showing me how to quote, and also for your blog. I read the attachment link you posted and it was very interesting. I definitely relate to a lot of what you wrote, although I haven't told T about any of it.

BLT, thank you for the very clear description of attachments, that was very helpful. I am still a little confused about where attachment ends and transference begins, but I understand a little more now.

quote:

I came across transference feelings sooner than that, maybe 2 months into therapy.

Sometimes I'm also scared that maybe one of these days these feelings will go out of proportion and I'll lose control/go completely insane and invade his privacy and behave inappropriately towards him, maybe he'll call the police and get angry at me and I'll never see him again. But I think this is a thought that comes from the fear of being rejected after exposing myself and my feelings to him.

Eliana, I also started to feel these feelings much earlier on, but I dismissed them because they didn't make sense to me, and I thought it would pass. But in the past few weeks it's only gotten much much stronger, and I also fear that the feelings will get out of control causing me to invade T's privacy (which is not something I would ever do on purpose.) I just feel like I can't control my thoughts and feelings, and that is very frightening. But I agree that it probably stems from a fear of rejection.

It does help to know that I am not the only one experiencing this. I never knew until now that it was so common. I am glad I decided to post, and thankful for all of the responses. Makes me feel like I matter :-)

quote:

I remember feeling "cheated" because I never knew feeling this way about a T could happen! It can be really scary.

So true, same here! "Blind-sided" is the word that comes to mind! I've been in therapy for about 11 months now, and I'm JUST NOW starting to recognize the tsunami of emotions for what they are; transference for what it is, and that my feelings TOWARDS my therapist aren't always about him.

Starry

Does anyone have any other suggestions about how to start the attachment/transference conversation with T? I know many people have said to ask what they know about it, but this seems rather unnatural to me.

I want to bring it up because then maybe I can start to get past it, but I am so embarassed. Not to mention frightened. But my T is all I can think about every day, so something's gotta give.

Start with "this is embarrassing" and then blunder your way through somehow. At least, that's the only way I've ever managed it

hi, Coco. i took the cowardly route and sent an email. then we talked about it, a little. we had actually talked about transference prior to that. it was more of a negative transference then, though (of which i still struggle ... i like HIM, it's more of an issue with authorigy figures of which he fits the bill). the email was more of an unveiling of my feelings of attachment towards him. i knew if i didn't sent an email i'd never actually bring it up myself in session so it's not like i had much of a choice. i HAD to do something because like you, he was ALL i could think about and it became rather excruciating. i know your feelings of embarassment and being scared, but this is what therapy really is about, is the relationship between you and your T. i hate it, too. but that is what it's about, and i still have to remind myself of that. you can do it, and trust me you'll be glad you did. the intense longing has eased a LOT though it can still rear it's head, but not so strong anymore. that may change, but i took the first step and it helped alot. i hope this helps. i dont' know what else to say. i wish you the best of luck in whatever you decide to do, but i do encourage you to discuss this with your T. it'll be a scary session to go to, but you'll be so glad you brought it up afterwards. good luck and hugs!

Have you tested the field at all with your T? I know some Ts will disregard feelings of transference completely while others think is the best thing since sliced bread. Do you have any idea what are your T's feelings about it? Has your relationship even been mentioned?
If so you can always say "there's something I should tell you but I'm not sure how" or mention how you've been feeling intense about the sessions. Nothing wrong with beating around the bush for a while if you feel insecure about it :P
And like closed doors mentioned, you could write it down and hand it to your T, maybe that would be easier. Let us know how it goes please! I actually feel nervous for you as I'm in the same situation!

quote:

Have you tested the field at all with your T? ... Do you have any idea what are your T's feelings about it? Has your relationship even been mentioned?

We have never really talked about our relationship, that is partly why I am so scared. Although, on her website she does say that she believes that a strong client-therapist relationship is the key to success. So I guess that is encouraging, but still vague.

Really I have no idea how she will respond. I will probably end up doing a combination of what everyone has been saying...sending a vague email, then beating around the bush in the session, and eventually blundering my way through it. I think I like the email idea, that way she can have a warning. And she has encouraged me to email her if I need any extra support between sessions, which I am thankful for because I've read on here that some therapists don't allow any contact.

These are all good suggestions...now any idea how to not be afraid or embarassed? <---rhetorical question, I don't think there's any getting around it.

sorry, Coco ... dont' think there's a way around that one. them's your feelings and they're normal and okay and you're not alone. i know first-hand it's scary, but from what is said on your Ts website you'll do just fine. keep us posted, and good luck to you!

I did it! I told my T about how attached I feel to her, and it wasn't the end of the world! (HUGE sigh of relief....PHEW!)

I was SO scared and nervous and my face was bright red. But she was so calm and understanding, telling me it's perfectly normal and that talking about it is the best thing I could do. She said she was proud of me and that I was very Brave. (ahhh, I think I love her even more now....) Such a good session, and it's weird to think that it started out with one of the hardest things I've ever done.

((((COCO)))))

That's Great!

Thanks, guys!

Hi everyone!

Things have been going pretty well with my therapist in terms of transference/attachment lately. However, i think i just made a huge mistake and im kind of freaking out about it.

I was really bored and lonely tonight so i decided to google my therapist's name just to see what pops up. Ive done this so many times and have never found anything significant. However, this time i did a little more digging and managed to find a little blurb that mentions her husbands name. Of course i was curious, so i googled her husband's name, and managed to find his facebook account. Then through his facebook account, i managed to find my therapists facebook account. Im feeling so pathetic and guilty right now. My therapist doesnt use her full name on facebook, so clearly she doesnt want people finding her, yet im such a stalker that i was able to. I feel like i really invaded her privacy and that ive really gone too far and hit a new low.

I dont know what to do now, this is really depressing me, i just feel so guilty for what ive done. Ive been able to be pretty honest with her during our sessions, but i dont know if i can get the courage to bring this up. This is really stalker territory, and there is a chance that this really freaks her out and she asks me to see someone else. At the same time, if i dont bring it up, i will feel even more guilty. I really hate myself right now. Does anyone have any advice?

Thanks

PS. My therapist is leaving me soon for the summer, and im not sure how and if ill be able to handle it. The longest ive gone without seeing her was 3 weeks, and that was torture.

Hi Josh,
I agree with Dragonfly; please don't be too hard on yourself about this. I did a similar thing a few weeks ago and immediately I'd done it I wished I hadn't. I beat myself into a lather over it and sent my T. an e-mail apologising and telling her what I had done two days later, even offering to terminate my sessions. She responded by saying it was no big deal and no harm was done. I apologised again in person at my next session and all was forgotton since.
Tell your T if you feel you can, but don't worry and don't feel guilty, you've done nothing wrong.

Hi josh,

I also agree with Dragonfly and avoidant. Telling her is probably your best option. She should know that anything online is fair game (unless you hacked in by guessing a password or you are some computer genius or something... then maybe it's more of a gray area.) But the thing about transference is that it really feels like you can't control what you're doing.

I told my T about looking her up online and she didn't ask me about anything further. So I didn't end up telling her (as I planned) about finding her Pinterest account and from there finding her Facebook (but I can only see the front page because of her privacy settings, so it's only two pictures.) I did tell her I felt like a stalker and that I didn't want to feel that way and that I didn't mean to do these things.

I told her that sometimes I drive to her office building and sit in my car for a few minutes.... then I sort of "wake up" and realize I'm there and think "what I am doing?" Then I leave.

She didn't seem to think any of it was a problem. I said I was afraid I was being inappropriate and she said she thought it was totally normal and everything I felt was appropriate.

Perhaps if you started by telling her you are worried about her leaving and then bringing up the online stuff? Would that make it easier?

Like the others said, don't be too hard on yourself, transference is not easy to handle and we can only ever do our best.

Hugs and good luck!

Thanks for the advice Dragonfly, avoidant, and Coco. Im definitely going to mention it tomorrow at our next session. Im still feeling super guilty though, and just want to get this over with. All i want her to say is that she forgives me. There is still a big part of me that thinks ive crossed the line, and that she will ask me to see someone else, which of course i would never be able to handle. And then i would never forgive myself for mentioning it.

Ill keep you guys updated. Tomorrows session could not come soon enough....

Just a quick update. So i told her everything today. I feel that she took it well. She actually asked me what exactly i found out, she said she was curious. Anyways, i told her that i felt super guilty and was just looking for her forgiveness. She said that it wasnt her job to forgive me (whatever that means), but she wasnt angry at me. She also put to rest my fear that she might ask me to see someone else because of this by saying that this is very normal and that she feels this is something we can work through together.

Thanks for helping me through this guys.

Glad it turned out OK!!!

Hello. I just read the article and many of the forum posts about this topic- Highly informative/interesting stuff! Just to let you know a bit about my own experience... I am a married guy in therapy with a woman who is around my same age. I don't want to go in to too much detail, because it's a small world, but basically I have been dealing with transference for awhile now. I fit all the classic criteria for this problem, and I've researched it enough to identify where it comes from. I just wanted to pose a question to those who have dealt with it or possibly even a therapist who might see this. Is there a way for me to process this on my own without telling her? I mean is there a book out there or something that might give me a better grasp of how to overcome it? It would simply be too humiliating to even approach the subject with her! Not to mention the fact that I really think she's a great therapist! I don't want to go to all the trouble of starting over with someone else! If I told her about it one of two things would happen- Either she would terminate or try to help me with it. Or I would terminate shortly thereafter out of embarrassment. Either way it would end. I'm not so delusional that I believe that there is even the slightest chance anything could ever come of it with her, so at least I have that part covered. It is simply another brick in the ever growing brick wall of issues that I have. Not to mention the fact that I love my wife! But I already know enough to know that this whole transference thing is all about a missing parental connection. I'm a reasonably intelligent person. Just point me to the book I need to be reading right now? Please?

Hi soandso,

I love your name! and welcome to the forum. I wish I could tell you that reading a book will resolve the feelings, but unfortunately I really don't think it will. There's another thread on this forum about ending transference feelings and several of us that have posted there about reading Deborah Lott's book about transference, "In session." It focuses on women in therapy but you may find it helpful in terms of learning more about how others experience and work through transference. I bought it several years ago when I thought my P was going to terminate me, so, like you, I wanted a book to help me through. It was helpful and I need to re-read it, but reading a book isn't the same as processing feelings within the safety of therapy.

When I had extreme transference for my 1st P, I was never able to work through it with him because he ended his practice abruptly. I read all sorts of books to help me cope with the feelings I was left with. One of my favorites was "Good enough endings" because it helped me understand the value of working through the feelings before ending therapy, which is one reason I continued to try and find a T or P who could help me.

I understand the fear of being terminated for expressing your feelings, but most Ts and Ps are trained in how to handle this and she may be waiting for you to open up the topic. I know it feels very risky to open up about all of this with your T, because I'm at that point in therapy with my P.

Summer

Hi Soandso,
Welcome to the forums!

I very much agree with what Summer said. The problem is that these kind of intense feelings for a therapist usually have their roots in how we experienced relationships as a child. So there are two problems with trying to handle it ourselves.

Human beings cannot know themselves out of relationship and this is doubly true if we're struggling to understand and bring to consciousness, our unconscious patterns and behaviors (the ones that were formed during our early experience). In order for our therapist to gain insight and understanding into our behavior, we have to show them what is going on, very much including the feelings we are having for them. Therapists hold a deeply symbolic significance and often our reactions to them are very much rooted in our earliest experiences with our parents.

The other difficult aspect is that healing from this isn't about cognitive, explicit learning. I'm with you, I'd much rather be able to just find the right book. But how we change in therapy, especially in this area, is to have a right brain to right brain experience, while expressing our feelings and being heard and understood. By doing this, we explicitly learn a lot of the skills we need to and new ways of relating. We were injured in relationship and it is in relationship that we heal. Just from reading what you wrote, its sounds like you actually have a pretty good handle on what is going on, it's not lack of understanding that is making this hard. It's the fact that no matter how well we understand, we still have to feel the emotions and risk expressing them in order to heal.

I know it's very hard to speak about this, I seriously thought my T was going to terminate me when i told him how I felt. Turned out to be one of the best things I ever did. It has been very difficult, but I've been able to work through the feelings and my marriage is in better shape than it has ever been because risking and opening up to my T about these feelings has helped me learned to move closer in relationship. I would really urge you to talk to your T about these feelings.

AG

Thanks for the response Summer! I will certainly check out the books you mentioned. And yes, termination is definitely a concern. But honestly I think my T would probably handle it as professionally as she has handled everything else we've dealt with. I'm actually more afraid that I will terminate therapy with her because I'll be too humiliated to go back! I'm sorry you have experienced this nightmare yourself. Hope that you find success processing things with your current P.

Thanks for your thorough/insightful response Attachment Girl. As I said in my response to Summer-- I'm honestly more worried about my own response to telling than I am about her response. If she remains true to form, she'd probably be immensely supportive and understanding in helping me deal with it. The problem is I'd be so humiliated that I would stop going. Sometimes I really wish I could just get a therapist to help me deal with therapy!

I do understand what you're saying re: allowing ourselves to feel the emotions and risk expressing them... Unfortunately I have to weigh the pros and cons. She is helping me a great deal with the issues I brought to therapy to begin with. Her support has been absolutely vital to my mental health over the course of the last several months. So not only would I be risking the humiliation, I'd be risking my own stability right now. If I told her right now it would feel like I was pushing the self destruct button. Then on the other hand the transference is so consuming sometimes, it already sort of feels like that.

I appreciate the advice/help. And I am sorry that you had to go through transference yourself. I'm glad that it turned in to something more positive for you though!

A thought just occurred to me- Is there some way to deal with transference with your therapist without making the transference be about your therapist? Like if I could somehow deal with the underlying root causes of the problem? Maybe I could ask her if we could focus on childhood in some way? This is why a book that really delved in to the issue more deeply would be so helpful. Then I could try to get in tune with where it is coming from on a deeper level and bring those deeper issues up in therapy. Maybe that seems a bit dishonest, but bypassing the whole part of the conversation where I have to admit to having embarrassing feelings for her would make it so much easier! According to this whole concept of transference this is all rooted in my early experiences to begin with, so why are these delusional misplaced feelings of affection even important? The underlying issues are what need to be dealt with right? So maybe I just pinpoint what those are and bring those up to her? I'm just grasping at straws here. It all makes perfect sense in my head though!

Hi Attachment Girl, I seek your advice in regard to my intense feelings for my T. I understand how unique and precious the client/therapist relationship is. Her attentiveness, kindness and "holding" environment created has "swept me off my feet"! I now believe I am addicted to the dynamics of psychotherapy. Ironically, I'm seeing her for grief counselling. The attachment is sooooooo strong I don't want it to end! When it does end, I fear I will be going down the same path again, i.e. the pain of the loss of someone significant to me. I've been seeing her since the middle of last year, and I've expressed my dependency issues with her, and I have said that I need to work on them and try to overcome them. After verbalising my feelings, I experienced the worst fear possible, the fear of abandonment by my T. My fears haven't been realised, she's still travelling with me, and remains professional at all times. How can I weaken my feelings for her? Talking to her about my level of dependency has only intensified my feelings, i.e. obsessive thoughts. Do these obsessive thoughts (about my T) stem from anxiety connected to my grief? It is such a painful process, i.e. grief therapy and my feelings for her. In some ways I regret commencing the therapy, as I appear to have dug myself an even deeper hole! Any comments from you or anyone would be gratefully received! Abyss

Soandso, I just wanted to add that one of the best things I have gotten out of therapy is a greater tolerance for talking about things that felt "too embarrassing" to possibly face. I know it sounds counterintuitive, but talking to your T about embarrassing feelings can be incredibly healing. Don't miss that chance! It will be easier and less painful than you expect once you try it the first time.

(((SOANDSO))))

I have had the same desire many times: the wish to bypass something related to my T and just go around it. But somehow it doesn't go and away and just becomes the big elephant in the room. It was hard for me at first to reveal my feelings to my T and then go back and face him. Very hard. But it's gotten easier because he has been so accepting. Now I really trust that he's not going to turn on me or humiliate me in any way.

There are people out there who believe that, though the templates for this stuff was laid out in childhood, the feelings are very real and very much about the here and now. If I read Deborah Lott correctly, there has been a bit of a shift in terms of just chalking it all up to "transference" - which many women didn't find too helpful. As opposed to acknowledging the real feelings going on in the room between the client and the T. She seemed to find that the women who were able to work through it the best had T's took the middle road (I don't not love you but I don't LOVE you) but also acknowledged their own feelings for the client - albeit with restraint. And she seemed to indicate that our feelings just don't come out of nowhere. The T has a very real presence and as much as they try, their unconscious stuff enters the room and has an impact on us. It's a constant flow back and forth.

I wonder if you do decide to tell your T how you feel, if you can also share with her how you might feel coming back to face her, that you are afraid you will terminate. Maybe there is something she could say or do that might reassure you.

Nice to meet you btw.

((((ABYSS))))

Just wanted to send big hugs and let you know that I too experience the pain of transference and the obsessive thoughts. The question you pose is a good one about it being related to grief. I have read that "people like us" (doing a lot of inferring here) have a lot of unresolved grief. I've often felt the same way about loss that you do. I didn't enter into this relationship to fall in love only to find that I can't have and then to face the ultimate end anyway. Sometimes I do find that I tend to obsess more when I am anxious about something going on IRL or there's something that's difficult to face. Or when I just don't want to face the reality of my life at all - which is often, unfortunately.

Liese

Thanks BLT and Liese for your responses.

Liese: Interesting stuff re: Deborah Lott. I know that there are real feelings happening in the room with my T. Honestly that is the hardest part. I've basically convinced myself that I am delusional regarding her because that makes it easier to disconnect the emotion I am trying so hard to fight. But when I allow myself to think about the real things that triggered this to begin with, it is even more scary! Truth is I think my therapist and I have a lot in common from the things I've picked up over time about her personality/background. The reality for me is that if I wasn't married, and she wasn't my therapist, I think we might be very compatible human beings. She has responded to things about my life and my situation with some pretty unguarded reactions. In fact very often she even comments about reeling in her own reactions in session. I'm not an egotistical person whatsoever, but from a purely objective standpoint I think there is something about me that is triggering some sort emotion for her as well. Whatever that emotion is I don't know, and probably never will. I'm almost to the place that I feel like I should just stop sessions with her and find a male therapist. But then I'd feel like a jerk for terminating sessions with her without explanation. To answer your question, there probably is very little she'd be able to say to reassure me.

quote:

A thought just occurred to me- Is there some way to deal with transference with your therapist without making the transference be about your therapist? Like if I could somehow deal with the underlying root causes of the problem? Maybe I could ask her if we could focus on childhood in some way? This is why a book that really delved in to the issue more deeply would be so helpful. Then I could try to get in tune with where it is coming from on a deeper level and bring those deeper issues up in therapy. Maybe that seems a bit dishonest, but bypassing the whole part of the conversation where I have to admit to having embarrassing feelings for her would make it so much easier! According to this whole concept of transference this is all rooted in my early experiences to begin with, so why are these delusional misplaced feelings of affection even important? The underlying issues are what need to be dealt with right? So maybe I just pinpoint what those are and bring those up to her? I'm just grasping at straws here. It all makes perfect sense in my head though!

Soandso,
First I want to tell you that I DEEPLY understand you're wanting to find a clean solution that does not involve talking about these feelings. There have been many times where talking about these feelings has been embarrassing or felt humiliating. I have lost track of how many times I have complained to my therapist that my intellectual understanding of the process does not exempt me from having to talk about these feelings.

But if may gently point out, I think there is a flaw in your logic. These feelings are not delusional, they are real and you are really having them about your therapist. It's just that the intensity is fed by your formative experiences. Think of it as your interactions with your T are plucking a string that is vibrating at a frequency that is causing a lot of strings around it to also resonate, so the resulting sound is SO much louder.

Your feelings here and now, IN the relationship with your therapist, is how your unconscious is revealed. Our therapist observe our behaviors, looking for patterns to explore, which is how we can bring to light our deeper motivations, feelings and fears. My work with my T has been an intricate weaving between present and past. The starting point is how I am feeling about him and his actions and our relationship. Trying to understand those feelings often leads me to things in my past, some of them long buried and disavowed. When they come forth I am able to own them and fit them into my story and make sense of them and that helps to rob them of their intensity. But, I hasten to add in my experience, my feelings about my T have been the roadmap, and the compass which have allowed me to "see" the understanding issues.

So I understand your hesitation about speaking, and I also totally respect that this is your decision to speak or not speak and if you do decide to speak, to decide the time. I'm just not sure there's a way around the speaking that will allow you to get to what's underneath.

AG

Hi Abyss,
What you are going through sounds normal for someone who has experienced previous abandonment and loss. If we did not have the kind of security and love we needed as children, we end up with a "felt" experience of relationship that leads us to expect pain and we often organize our life around not getting hurt again (and in the process end up in a cell of our own making).

The truth is that loss is an inherent part of life but when we don't get what we need, we learn to believe that somehow pain is integral to love. So to avoid pain, we need to avoid love. But the truth is that pain is integral to life and love is the answer to that pain. That we move towards other people to face and survive the pain that we face, including someday losing them. But if you have never experienced that kind of supportive love, then moving towards someone feels like a life-threatening, dangerous thing to do.

Often in healing from these kinds of injuries, a certain level of emotional dependence can be necessary for a while to help us deal with all the unprocessed grief and feelings we never had help facing. As we fact those and learn to handle our own emotions, we then move through the dependency.

It sounds like you have a T who is comfortable and can handle how you are feeling. I would urge you to just keep talking about how you feel. It can talk a long time to heal and I know it is confusing and painful, but there is another side.

There are two posts on my blog I think you might find helpful:

What I learned in therapy Lesson 5 - The relationship of love and pain

Disorganized Attachment or Why You Think You're Crazy but Really Aren't

AG

AG,

Thanks for your kind/thoughtful/insightful response. I think your description of what is going on was totally spot on and VERY well put. It is basically on me at this point to determine whether or not I am ready to face these things head on with my T or not. This really resonated with me. The choice seems pretty clear- Either I choose personal growth or I stay stuck. There is no reward without personal risk right? I have a lot to think about. I just wish this wasn't so hard. Thanks again.

Hi Liese, big hugs to you too!! Thanks for your comments. Since my post the plot has thickened. My T has referred me to a P to investigate my so-called attachment disorder. I'm having difficulty making sense of it. Maybe I should drop therapy altogether, although I would like to prove to T that the investigation with a P will prove fruitless. Any thoughts from you or anyone would be great.

I am reading your posts, and many of the other posts, and I keep reading my story over and over again. Good, I am not the only one with these feelings. Even some of the actions people have taken I have done. I have had eroticised transference with two therapists one a man, and my current shrink, a woman! I am not even gay. I am married... to a man, but I have these very intense erotic fantasies with my shrink. I have been with my T for just over two years, and I have been obsessing over her and fantasizing with her for over a year. I had to tell her because when I first realized what was happening to me, I was attracted to my T, I had an anxiety attack. When I met with her I sat in front of her with my head down, and told her I was so embarrassed, and that it was difficult to tell her this but, I was attracted to her. I just spit it out, I had to. It was the best thing I could have done. Now these feelings are in the open and I can speak with her about how them. This revelation didn't amuse her, shock her, disgust her, or even impress, her she just listened. So my point is tell your T what you are feel. Muster the courage and spit the words out. I do not believe I am in love with my T, but that I have a crush on her. I always tell her i am attached to her, like a puppy wanting to jump up on her lap and let her pet me. However, I do want more. I hope this is helpful to anyone who is still struggling with telling there T they are attracted to them, or are falling in love, or have a crush, or just want to have sex with them.

quote:

Originally posted by Snape:
I am reading your posts, and many of the other posts, and I keep reading my story over and over again. Good, I am not the only one with these feelings. Even some of the actions people have taken I have done. I have had eroticised transference with two therapists one a man, and my current shrink, a woman! I am not even gay. I am married... to a man, but I have these very intense erotic fantasies with my shrink. I have been with my T for just over two years, and I have been obsessing over her and fantasizing with her for over a year. I had to tell her because when I first realized what was happening to me, I was attracted to my T, I had an anxiety attack. When I met with her I sat in front of her with my head down, and told her I was so embarrassed, and that it was difficult to tell her this but, I was attracted to her. I just spit it out, I had to. It was the best thing I could have done. Now these feelings are in the open and I can speak with her about how them. This revelation didn't amuse her, shock her, disgust her, or even impress, her she just listened. So my point is tell your T what you are feel. Muster the courage and spit the words out. I do not believe I am in love with my T, but that I have a crush on her. I always tell her i am attached to her, like a puppy wanting to jump up on her lap and let her pet me. However, I do want more. I hope this is helpful to anyone who is still struggling with telling there T they are attracted to them, or are falling in love, or have a crush, or just want to have sex with them.

You are soooo brave for telling your T! And your description of the puppy is pretty much on target! I guess it is just pride for me. I can't let go of my pride and be that person sitting on the couch so vulnerable and exposed in front of another human being. Because yes they are trained to know how to react to this stuff, but at the end of the day they are still people. Even the small risk that she'll have momentary thoughts crossing her mind that a total loser is sitting in front of her is too big of a risk for me to handle. Even though chances are she thinks that anyway deep down.

I had to tell my T how I was feeling, I was going nuts.
If I had not told her I couldn't make any further progress, because my feeling toward her were a total distraction. Believe me it was not easy telling her, I was shaking, and I thought I was going to throw up on her carpet, now THAT would have been embarrassing.

I am sure your T does not think you are a loser, I do not think you are a loser, it's like what my shrink told me, she just wants to be helpful. We are not the first to have a huge crush, attachment, love, intense desires for them, so don't feel you are unique and therefore, a loser for having your feelings. We all just want to feel better and that is what our T's are there to do, help us feel better.

Hi. I have been seeing a therapist now for a couple months or so. Maybe 3. Been seeing her 2x a week from almost the beginning. I was sexually abused as a child and have recently surfaced issues to include questioning my sexuality. I too am very attracted to my T. I think she is gay. I love her smile, her voice and personality. I fantasize being with her a lot of the time. The fantasies include her being in love with me as much as I believe i'm in love with her. I know this is not a relationship that will ever happen. My T has it together. I get so confused with love, sex and attachment. I'm am very attracted to my T and know I would be if I had met her elsewhere. It makes me want to quit therapy and deal with issues in new groups I recently joined. But I feel like I'm running away from a big issue. I know I should discuss this with my T but am embarrassed and feel stupid. Isn't it possible that I am really in love with her? I feel like I can't take being around her knowing it will go nowhere. I'm also very lonely which probably doesn't make it any easier.

Hi Kmatel,
Welcome to the forums, I'm glad you decided to post. What you're feeling sounds very familiar to me, as I went through something very similar with my T. It's important to recognize that the feelings you are having for your therapist are very real. It's not unusual that in such an intimate and honest relationship feelings of love would develop and there are many therapists that speak of love as necessary to healing.

But the therapeutic relationship is set up in such a way that is can be very easy to idealize the therapist and we know so little about them compared to other relationships, that it is easy to see what we long for in them. Especially since for many of us, we are receiving a level of attention and care that we have never received before. So the feelings are real, but are also a reflection of unmet needs, and our unconscious ways of relating. Because therapy is about your needs, it is the perfect place to become conscious of your feelings and learn how you do relationships. Which is why it can be so important to speak up about these feelings to your therapist, although I know that can be very scary.

I also know that the pain of not being able to have what you believe you want can be excruciating but I know for me, that intensity of that pain was fed by the resonance of what I experienced as a child, of not being loved and not getting what I needed.

There's a couple of posts on my blog, I think you might find helpful:

Erotic Transference

Disorganized Attachment or Why You Think You're Crazy But Really Aren't

If you haven't already done so, I'd encourage you to read older threads on the forum. Many members here struggle with these feelings and there is a lot of good information and posts on the topic. I would recommend doing a search on "transference" and browsing the threads which come up. I hope you can find help and support here. I'm looking forward to getting to know you.

AG

Thanks so much AG. I understood this when entering therapy. In fact, when I chose my T, (I met with a few) I did so because I clicked with her and I suspected she was gay. Since I also have sexual identity issues, I thought that this could help me. Also, in a way, I think that I was subconsciously attracted to her. In fact, I noted this in my journal which I let her read every session. But now that I think about her constantly and it comes down to expressing these feelings, I can't. I guess I "want my cake and eat it too" and because I think it's crazy to let myself get so close to someone but not be able to be friends, then I decided that traditional therapy is not going to be effective for me.

Reading your posts and the posts of others helped remind me of just why being friends/partners with your therapist is Not a good idea. Problem is, there's the part of me that so stronly yearns for mutual intimate emotional, spiritual and physical contact with her. This is what I need most to discuss with her. I have been basically heterosexual and am attracted to men but every so often, I meet a woman I am emotionally, spiritually and sexually attracted to. It causes me much confusion and I have become aware that some of this may stem from childhood. However, some women I have met have struck a chord with me but in only in a nurturing motherly way. A different kind of attachment issue which just confuses me more.

Up until 6-7 months ago, I had not really shared much of anything with anyone. (I had alluded to some childhood sexual abuse with a previous T but it was a one-two sentence statement). I have become so aware of just how much the childhood sexual abuse and lack of parental nurturing and constant negative reinforcement have impacted my life in every way, shape, and form. I have so many issues stemming from so many sources that I feel screwed up beyond all repair. All these issues have surfaced with a vengance and I find myself really struggling. I have joined a depression group and an SIA group and have reached out and shared with other's. This has helped as I had never opened up like this before but it is still difficult.

thanks for responding to my post.

km

Isn't it possible to not only experience erotic transfer with your T or someone else and yet be truely attracted to them, even if you they were not your T? I was attracted to my T from the start.

Kmatel,

Absolutely, your feelings of attraction for your therapist are real. You feel attracted to him. And there is usually some element of transference in all our relationships. Our early relationships with our caregivers formed our relationship templates and we apply them to any relationship we are in.

What's different about therapy is that the feelings cannot be acted on as you could outside of a therapeutic relationship but CAN be discussed in a way that might not be possible elsewhere so you can learn about yourself through those feelings.

I think I am attracted to my T in a here and now sense, but I also know that the unrequited nature of the relationship evokes old griefs and that the intensity of my feelings for him seem to be very driven by my past.

The truth is, though, that we do not know the real person of our therapist because they are always focused on our needs and attending to us which isn't possible 24/7. So we fall in love with this "idealized" perfect person who doesn't really exist. I'm guessing my T would look different if I had to pick up his dirty socks and fight about bills with him. So I think in therapy, it's best to take your feelings with a grain of salt, but in no way do I want to invalidate the way you're feeling. It's real.

AG

Thanks. My T is a woman. Sometimes I feel so very scared. Panic, Alone. LOST and I don't know where to go, to turn. Very scary. Overwhelming feelings that I can't do this therapy thing and heal. I don't know what to do at these times to handle the anxiety.

I'm very sorry, you had mentioned your T was a woman and I said him instead of her. My own bias is showing.

It can feel very overwhelming when these feelings are coming up. Part of the reason for that may be because it's evoking memories of a time when you were overwhelmed, panicked and alone. You don't have to deal with this alone anymore though. I would urge you to share this if you can with your T. I don't want to act like telling her will make it disappear; these feelings can take a while to work through, but it does provide some relief right away. And eventually the intensity and anxiety do get under control.

It's also ok to talk about here as much as you need to. People here really get what you're going through. I know healing feels impossible, but the truth is that you can heal. The way through is difficult but not impossible.

Thanks AG. I did put in my journal that I was researching transference/counterT and EroticT. Let her read my journal. She asked me if I was feeling this towards her and I said yes. We talked a little but got off topic. I have written what I want to share about my feelings for her at our Friday session.

This just drives me crazy though. All The feelings are so intense that I feel like I can't take it. The "adult" side of me, although a little confused, has it together and going from one extreme to the other drains me.

Thanks so much for your feedback. I never reached out before 6 months ago and I'm still learning and realizing just how much I need other (and good) people. I try as much as I can to be there now for others I've met and look forward to when I can support and give a lot more.

AG, You have great insight and written expression and I have learned valuable info from what you've shared and have found some comfort. I don't feel so quite alone. I wish you and all others struggling with these issues good human beings to love and support you, the endurance to see it through and peace at the end of the journey. I care. Peace to you.

Thanks,
KM

I wish I was having pleasant feelings toward my therapist. Normally I walk out of there having a very strong dislike or hating him, as I told him last week. I believe that this is my transference.

I envy those who love their therapist...maybe I will get to that point eventually. I read a lot about erotic transference, etc. but I would really like to find more information to read about when feeling a continual strong dislike towards the therapist in the context of transference.

I think when one loves their therapist and can tell them, that is awesome! And it takes courage.

Kudos to those who have done it!