Wow, Attachment Girl, thank-you so much for sharing that. It feels like you really got to the heart of something.
So many folks struggle with transference and in the back of my head, I'm not always sure that they're getting the kind of connection with their therapist that's required for healing. So, it's nice to hear how your therapist is with you, that he is truly there for you. I get that.
I wish I could describe what a good connection feels like for folks. I feel like I haven't adequately answered River's question on what it looks like when a therapist is emotionally available for a client. So, it's another reason I like your post, because I get the feeling your therapist is maintaining good boundaries but still being present and emotionally available to you.
Wish you well,
Shrinklady
any comments on the money aspect of it all?
Antoni
Antoni
AG, your last post is an incredibly wonderful revelation! Some of what you describe I have been conscious of and some I haven't but you have described a lot of how I feel way more eloquently than I ever could have!
I am right there with the not wanting to ask for what I need for fear of being refused. I have that problem with everyone, not just my T. My needs were virtually invisible to my parents and as an adult I have heard too many yes's that have never materialized to be able to trust anyone with what I need. I don't ask, I can't ask. It is the hardest thing for me to do. It is hard for me to trust that people ever really mean what they say. Once after she was away on vacation I confessed to my T how much I had missed her. She said she missed me too and I see that as her being emotionally available by expressing her feelings about me. However, even though I honestly don't think she would lie to me I have the hardest time believing it. I guess I can't internalize it. I don't understand how on her vacation she would think of me, actually miss me in some way. She has many clients, I can't believe that she misses us all while she is on vacation!
No, I haven't talked to her about this but I may when she returns from the seeming endless vacation she is on now. These have been the longest two weeks of my life since the last two weeks of my pregnancy five years ago.
(I don't think time has ever moved more slowly than that last month of pregnancy!)
I am right there with the not wanting to ask for what I need for fear of being refused. I have that problem with everyone, not just my T. My needs were virtually invisible to my parents and as an adult I have heard too many yes's that have never materialized to be able to trust anyone with what I need. I don't ask, I can't ask. It is the hardest thing for me to do. It is hard for me to trust that people ever really mean what they say. Once after she was away on vacation I confessed to my T how much I had missed her. She said she missed me too and I see that as her being emotionally available by expressing her feelings about me. However, even though I honestly don't think she would lie to me I have the hardest time believing it. I guess I can't internalize it. I don't understand how on her vacation she would think of me, actually miss me in some way. She has many clients, I can't believe that she misses us all while she is on vacation!
No, I haven't talked to her about this but I may when she returns from the seeming endless vacation she is on now. These have been the longest two weeks of my life since the last two weeks of my pregnancy five years ago.
(I don't think time has ever moved more slowly than that last month of pregnancy!)
Hi Antoni, thanks for your question. I actually prepared an answer and I wanted to reflect on it for a bit but now I can't find it...so, I'll have to give it another go. It's a challenging issue that relates to both the political and the personal.
I'll get back to you on that.
Hi River, I noticed your comment about your therapist. I don't think I'm much different than other colleagues of mine, but thoughts of my clients float in and out of my mind whether I'm at work or not. I have relationships with these folks and like others I have relationships with, I think of them from time to time. So, I could easily imagine that you had crossed your therapist's mind here and there.
Shrinklady
I'll get back to you on that.
Hi River, I noticed your comment about your therapist. I don't think I'm much different than other colleagues of mine, but thoughts of my clients float in and out of my mind whether I'm at work or not. I have relationships with these folks and like others I have relationships with, I think of them from time to time. So, I could easily imagine that you had crossed your therapist's mind here and there.
Shrinklady
quote:I needed to be loved, I needed to be cherished, I needed to feel like I was someone special, and I needed to feel like my needs were important enough to be met. That's still difficult to say. I didn't get those things and its incredibly painful. I'm letting myself feel what it felt like and it hurts and leaves me grief stricken...
Wow, this is my experience to a T. I think I just experienced transference for the first time on Friday when I became totally upset and freaked out when my T announced he'd be gone for this week and forgot to tell me. I felt betrayed, heartbroken and scared to death, not to mention furious.
He completely welcomed these feelings toward him and acknowledged his mistake and apologized. He even equated his mistake and my response to it to a recent experience with my father where my father wandered off without me while my family was on vacation. At the time I just thought it was my dad doing something kind of odd, but my T pointed out that it was yet another instance of my dad walking away from me, essentially abandoning me. (Abandonment is a feeling I've totally repressed my whole life.)
So I think in mentioning this, my T was actually inviting me to realize that my feelings toward him were actually pulled from feelings I've had about my dad for years but was unable to feel or express them.
Then a really freaky, disturbing thing happened last night; I had a dream about my T. He came into my room while I was going to sleep, put his hand on my shoulder and apologized for his mistake. Man, this TOTALLY freaked me out. I sure hope this is transference, and I sure hope he'll be able to help me through it to the other side.
I just found this site yesterday, and I can't tell you helpful it's been. Thanks for everyone here.
Russ
welcome Russ,
transference sucks! LOL
Scott
transference sucks! LOL
Scott
Welcome Russ, your post was spot on. It sure sounds like transference and it also seems like you're on your way to the other side...I know from both my personal and professional experience, when we get to a place where we are owning and feeling (not just cognitively knowing) where the feelings originally arise from, the power of the transference starts to lose its edge.
It was great to hear your therapist being right there for you. That dream was like your brain was re-working the old memories using the good connection with your therapist to resource you through those early feelings of your dad.
Thanks for your post,
Shrinklady
It was great to hear your therapist being right there for you. That dream was like your brain was re-working the old memories using the good connection with your therapist to resource you through those early feelings of your dad.
Thanks for your post,
Shrinklady
Hi Shrinklady,
Thanks for your input. The insights in your posts here are really wonderful.
I was reading Attachment Girl's post about her wanting to throw things at her T's head to get some kind of emotion out of him. This sounds familiar. My T betrays very little emotion and sometimes I feel this as a real lack of compassion and support from him, which really bothers me. I told him this once and he just sort of agreed and then steered the discussion toward what it was about words of encouragement that I find comforting? This triggered a bout of sobbing on my part, which felt good, and feeling emotions that are just beneath the surface is a main goal of our work. Before therapy, I don't think I'd cried for about 15 years, despite my enormous stock pile of sadness, anger and loneliness. No wonder I developed an anxiety disorder.
Anyway, I just wish the guy would offer a word or two of encouragement once in a while.
At the same time, his insights are really excellent, so I guess you have to take the good with the bad in therapy.
Thanks again.
Russ
Thanks for your input. The insights in your posts here are really wonderful.
I was reading Attachment Girl's post about her wanting to throw things at her T's head to get some kind of emotion out of him. This sounds familiar. My T betrays very little emotion and sometimes I feel this as a real lack of compassion and support from him, which really bothers me. I told him this once and he just sort of agreed and then steered the discussion toward what it was about words of encouragement that I find comforting? This triggered a bout of sobbing on my part, which felt good, and feeling emotions that are just beneath the surface is a main goal of our work. Before therapy, I don't think I'd cried for about 15 years, despite my enormous stock pile of sadness, anger and loneliness. No wonder I developed an anxiety disorder.
Anyway, I just wish the guy would offer a word or two of encouragement once in a while.
At the same time, his insights are really excellent, so I guess you have to take the good with the bad in therapy.
Thanks again.
Russ
"Hi Antoni, thanks for your question. I actually prepared an answer and I wanted to reflect on it for a bit but now I can't find it...so, I'll have to give it another go. It's a challenging issue that relates to both the political and the personal.
I'll get back to you on that."
We read a book called 'Street Lawyer' by John Grisham a while back. It was all about this rich lawyer who decided to work with street people as their lawyer (it took place in USA where I believe they have larger 'issues' than in Canada on this in terms of the systems available etc) Anyhow, as we are planning to take training as an Art Therapist, and eventually work in the field, the issues of 'money for therapy' is one we think of often, in terms of if people will (eventually) be able to 'afford' us ... and also the personal cost for therapy is a continuing issue. However, I believe that if people see the benefits, and have the resources to search out therapies (i.e., social workers lean them towards that) then it can be a win for all involved. I think that in any work one does there should be an aspect of volunterism. That is to say, one has to make ends meet (financially speaking - get the $$) but also there is some intrinsic value in volunteering ones time or decreasing the $$ in some cases. When we worked in the childcare field (day care) we were also 'sunday school supervisor' at the church we were in...volunteering plus $$ for working... we would like to be able to work with 'troubled kids' on a volunteer basis as well as 'working for pay'.
I hope some of this made some sense (cents
)
later,
Antoni
I'll get back to you on that."
We read a book called 'Street Lawyer' by John Grisham a while back. It was all about this rich lawyer who decided to work with street people as their lawyer (it took place in USA where I believe they have larger 'issues' than in Canada on this in terms of the systems available etc) Anyhow, as we are planning to take training as an Art Therapist, and eventually work in the field, the issues of 'money for therapy' is one we think of often, in terms of if people will (eventually) be able to 'afford' us ... and also the personal cost for therapy is a continuing issue. However, I believe that if people see the benefits, and have the resources to search out therapies (i.e., social workers lean them towards that) then it can be a win for all involved. I think that in any work one does there should be an aspect of volunterism. That is to say, one has to make ends meet (financially speaking - get the $$) but also there is some intrinsic value in volunteering ones time or decreasing the $$ in some cases. When we worked in the childcare field (day care) we were also 'sunday school supervisor' at the church we were in...volunteering plus $$ for working... we would like to be able to work with 'troubled kids' on a volunteer basis as well as 'working for pay'.
I hope some of this made some sense (cents
) later,
Antoni
quote:I just wish the guy would offer a word or two of encouragement once in a while.
could you elaborate on what you mean? I think if a T isn't giving encouragment on the work you've been doing them something is missing.
Antoni
quote:Originally posted by the dude:quote:I just wish the guy would offer a word or two of encouragement once in a while.
could you elaborate on what you mean? I think if a T isn't giving encouragment on the work you've been doing them something is missing.
Antoni
I guess what I mean is that he's not a "hey you're doing great, hang in there" kind of guy.
When I feel wretched, I go in there and I go off on how I am never going to get better, how this therapy is useless, how I should be better by now, that I'm helpless in the face of my symptoms etc, etc.
When I do this, instead of words of encouragement, he generally points out - in his way - that (1) I *am* slowly but surely getting better and (2) that the part of me that is going off on the negative comments is the part of me that is responsible for my symptoms; the critical me, the gremlin, my inner bastard, whatever you wanna call it. And, this thing is just getting the better of me that day, and that IS NOT the actual, true me.
He's also very good at getting me to FEEL the emotion behind my symptoms - the stuff that my anxiety is trying to keep me from feeling. So I'll end up sobbing, which almost always makes me feel MUCH better.
So, while it's not your typical encouragment, it does feel good to get this perspective and to get some of that poisonous emotion out.
Hope this makes some sense.
Russ
Russ,
This is the part of your post that really struck me:
I totally understand the need for this kind of encouragement. If my T didn't show me any emotion I would feel like I was talking to a wall and not a person. It is very hard to be the only one in the room experiencing any kind of emotion when discussing very emotional things. When I feel her sympathize and empathize and in general just act natural and normal I know she is getting it. She doesn't get carried away or anything but rather it can feel like she is traveling along side me not just watching from the sidelines. I really appreciate her willingness to do this. It is at these times that I feel most encouraged and hopeful.
Unfortunately, the feeling fades after a day or two so I guess this is way I wish I saw her more often. I wish I had more people in my life willing to travel "along side" me in the journey which is really my ultimate goal for being in therapy in the first place.
This is the part of your post that really struck me:
quote:My T betrays very little emotion and sometimes I feel this as a real lack of compassion and support from him, which really bothers me.
I totally understand the need for this kind of encouragement. If my T didn't show me any emotion I would feel like I was talking to a wall and not a person. It is very hard to be the only one in the room experiencing any kind of emotion when discussing very emotional things. When I feel her sympathize and empathize and in general just act natural and normal I know she is getting it. She doesn't get carried away or anything but rather it can feel like she is traveling along side me not just watching from the sidelines. I really appreciate her willingness to do this. It is at these times that I feel most encouraged and hopeful.
Unfortunately, the feeling fades after a day or two so I guess this is way I wish I saw her more often. I wish I had more people in my life willing to travel "along side" me in the journey which is really my ultimate goal for being in therapy in the first place.
River,
Thanks so much for your response to my last post, it is always good to realize that other people feel the same thing. Although I wish we were sharing feelings that were more pleasant to have.
But thank you for the encouragement. And I agree, there is NO space of time longer than the last month of pregnancy!! Even missing a T doesn't compare, hang in there.
Shrinklady,
Thank you so much for your comment, it is always so encouraging to hear from you. And you're exactly right, my T is completely available emotionally while being extremely careful about the boundaries, allowing me to hear both heard and safe. I think a major part of the epiphany was recognizing the things that I am getting from my T that I need so much versus what I want from him that I'm not getting and how good it is that I'm not. His ability to be available and accept all my feelings and let me discuss them is what has allowed me to see the underlying issues and how its really been about avoiding the pain of my childhood and the need to feel it and mourn it. And his being available has also created a place in which I can do that. I am incredibly grateful to have found this man. And grateful that I've been able to do this work (see I'm learning, I'm taking some credit!
) I also agree with what River posted, when I am dealing with really difficult stuff and the emotions are really strong, I can feel my T right beside me every step of the way, sometimes he will ask about one of my reactions almost before I can consciously register it, that more than anything else has communicated how much I matter and how much he cares.
Russ,
Welcome to the boards, I'm so glad you're posting! I know this is really difficult but it sounds like you're in a good place (as horrible as it feels). I'm really glad that what you've read here has helped. We've all found that having a place to be understood can really help you get through it.
Sorry this had been so scattershot, but I'm still on vacation and internet access is limited!! Thanks!
AG
Thanks so much for your response to my last post, it is always good to realize that other people feel the same thing. Although I wish we were sharing feelings that were more pleasant to have.
But thank you for the encouragement. And I agree, there is NO space of time longer than the last month of pregnancy!! Even missing a T doesn't compare, hang in there.Shrinklady,
Thank you so much for your comment, it is always so encouraging to hear from you. And you're exactly right, my T is completely available emotionally while being extremely careful about the boundaries, allowing me to hear both heard and safe. I think a major part of the epiphany was recognizing the things that I am getting from my T that I need so much versus what I want from him that I'm not getting and how good it is that I'm not. His ability to be available and accept all my feelings and let me discuss them is what has allowed me to see the underlying issues and how its really been about avoiding the pain of my childhood and the need to feel it and mourn it. And his being available has also created a place in which I can do that. I am incredibly grateful to have found this man. And grateful that I've been able to do this work (see I'm learning, I'm taking some credit!
) I also agree with what River posted, when I am dealing with really difficult stuff and the emotions are really strong, I can feel my T right beside me every step of the way, sometimes he will ask about one of my reactions almost before I can consciously register it, that more than anything else has communicated how much I matter and how much he cares.Russ,
Welcome to the boards, I'm so glad you're posting! I know this is really difficult but it sounds like you're in a good place (as horrible as it feels). I'm really glad that what you've read here has helped. We've all found that having a place to be understood can really help you get through it.
Sorry this had been so scattershot, but I'm still on vacation and internet access is limited!! Thanks!
AG
Transference is just the most awful thing. It has consumed my thoughts and I can't stand not being able to stop thinking about it all day. Sitting in therapy is the most uncomfortable, embaressing, ridiculous experience. Why bother to explore all of these feelings I have to someone that I don't have a friedship with and never will?
Hi AG!
Been catching up on recent posts since I've been away for a few weeks. (Boy did I miss my T terribly. I had a wonderful vacation but missed being in her presence. I was so busy preparing for vacation that it didn't dawn on me how much I was going to miss her until it HIT me the day before I left and I just started crying. I called her on the phone and expressed my insecurities to which she was so attuned to.
It's funny how I can relate to so many experiences here and it's helpful to know that I am not alone. I especially relate to your statement "I woke up an hour later and realized that my mind had done one of those lateral slippages where it all finally comes together, that you've been working on it somewhere out of sight, unconsciously and I had one of those moments of insight where I experience the knowledge instead of just knowing it."
Those moments of epiphany are amazing!
It is painful not having our needs met in infancy and childhood and thus the desire (longing) for our T's to take care of our needs and to nurture us, to love us and understand us, to make us feel important & secure, and to hold us. Although they cannot do this directly they do so symbolically through this wonderful relationship we call therapy. I've learned that I can go back (mentally)and nurture myself at those crucial moments as they come up. I can even imagine my real parents taking part and becoming the ideal parents I never had, but fantasized about my whole life. It is truly a healing experience.
Anyway, just wanted to feel in touch.
JM
Been catching up on recent posts since I've been away for a few weeks. (Boy did I miss my T terribly. I had a wonderful vacation but missed being in her presence. I was so busy preparing for vacation that it didn't dawn on me how much I was going to miss her until it HIT me the day before I left and I just started crying. I called her on the phone and expressed my insecurities to which she was so attuned to.
It's funny how I can relate to so many experiences here and it's helpful to know that I am not alone. I especially relate to your statement "I woke up an hour later and realized that my mind had done one of those lateral slippages where it all finally comes together, that you've been working on it somewhere out of sight, unconsciously and I had one of those moments of insight where I experience the knowledge instead of just knowing it."
Those moments of epiphany are amazing!
It is painful not having our needs met in infancy and childhood and thus the desire (longing) for our T's to take care of our needs and to nurture us, to love us and understand us, to make us feel important & secure, and to hold us. Although they cannot do this directly they do so symbolically through this wonderful relationship we call therapy. I've learned that I can go back (mentally)and nurture myself at those crucial moments as they come up. I can even imagine my real parents taking part and becoming the ideal parents I never had, but fantasized about my whole life. It is truly a healing experience.
Anyway, just wanted to feel in touch.
JM
Hi Diane;
You may never have a friendship with your T, but you will find this to be one of the most significant, healing relationships you will ever experience. What makes you so uncomfortable about sitting in therapy? Do you share your inner most thoughts and secrets w/ your T or are you still developing the trust before you can give in to full exposure? Doing so is what will bring relief to the distress you feel about it.
Hang in there it is worth all the consuming thoughts, longings, obsessions, fears, embarrasment...it is all part of the process for you to heal all those uncomfortable feelings that have plagued you throughout life.
You can do it.
JM
You may never have a friendship with your T, but you will find this to be one of the most significant, healing relationships you will ever experience. What makes you so uncomfortable about sitting in therapy? Do you share your inner most thoughts and secrets w/ your T or are you still developing the trust before you can give in to full exposure? Doing so is what will bring relief to the distress you feel about it.
Hang in there it is worth all the consuming thoughts, longings, obsessions, fears, embarrasment...it is all part of the process for you to heal all those uncomfortable feelings that have plagued you throughout life.
You can do it.
JM
i guess everyone's experience with transference is different. for me, i was pissed at my T for neglecting to tell me he was going to be out this week and later next month, but that being pissed converged with the river of hurt feelings i have about my dad and other people in my past...feelings that are always just below the surface...and it turned into heartbreak.
still, i have no desire for my T to be the dad i never had or my best friend. in fact, i like not knowing any thing personal about him. he just happens to be the guy who has been instrumental in helping me bring these feelings out and understanding them.
does this make any sense?
still, i have no desire for my T to be the dad i never had or my best friend. in fact, i like not knowing any thing personal about him. he just happens to be the guy who has been instrumental in helping me bring these feelings out and understanding them.
does this make any sense?
Hi Russ,
Yes, you DO make sense.
Oh I get mad at my T too! Twice she has dbl booked my appointment both times stating that this does not usually happen and appologizing. The first time I was more forgiving and gave up the appointment to the other client. The second time I was pissed and we spent the whole hour discussing it and how that made me feel forgettable and unimportant.
If I can say one thing that I appreciate through all that is I could not have had that sort of dialogue w/ a friend who dissapointed me that way or with my parents when I was a child. To be able to work out my feelings and relationship problems current and past as they come up and however they are triggered proves to be very healing for me. I learn that I can be disappointed by someone I love and care about and that it is not the end of the world or the relationship. I learn that my feelings are important and that I can express them (hopefully in a civilized manner). I learn that despite my childish expressions that my T will be there and (despite her human faults) she will continue to represent the secure attachment I need so that I can improve my other relationships in a more adult manner.
-I hope I make sense. =)
Yes, you DO make sense.
Oh I get mad at my T too! Twice she has dbl booked my appointment both times stating that this does not usually happen and appologizing. The first time I was more forgiving and gave up the appointment to the other client. The second time I was pissed and we spent the whole hour discussing it and how that made me feel forgettable and unimportant.
If I can say one thing that I appreciate through all that is I could not have had that sort of dialogue w/ a friend who dissapointed me that way or with my parents when I was a child. To be able to work out my feelings and relationship problems current and past as they come up and however they are triggered proves to be very healing for me. I learn that I can be disappointed by someone I love and care about and that it is not the end of the world or the relationship. I learn that my feelings are important and that I can express them (hopefully in a civilized manner). I learn that despite my childish expressions that my T will be there and (despite her human faults) she will continue to represent the secure attachment I need so that I can improve my other relationships in a more adult manner.
-I hope I make sense. =)
Has anyone here ever experienced transference with their medical doctor? I am and want to resolve it desperately! He treated me for cancer and has been incredibly caring, supportive, and available to me. He has crossed boundaries with me a few times (self-disclosure, expressed desire to save me) and acts completely differently towards me than he has in the past. It's been very confusing. I alternate between having sexual fantasies about him and wanting to be his daughter.
Needless to say, my father was completely useless during my childhood and beyond. He was not emotionally present.
I want to take care of this once and for all; I have done this with middle-aged authority figures for my entire adult life and it has been nothing but frustrating. This is the first time I have ever stepped back and have been able to see what I am doing. That has helped, but now what?
I have been in therapy for the last two years, but my T is a woman and is very CBT oriented. Is it possible to resolve my transference without going into analysis with a man?
Needless to say, my father was completely useless during my childhood and beyond. He was not emotionally present.
I want to take care of this once and for all; I have done this with middle-aged authority figures for my entire adult life and it has been nothing but frustrating. This is the first time I have ever stepped back and have been able to see what I am doing. That has helped, but now what?
I have been in therapy for the last two years, but my T is a woman and is very CBT oriented. Is it possible to resolve my transference without going into analysis with a man?
welcome to the forum, sprinting-gal. It's always nice to 'see' a new face! I don't have much of an answer for you, but I'd think transference can happen regardless of gender.
Scott
Scott