Hi Josh! Welcome to the forum! This thread is near and dear to my heart, because I also found this forum by reading this thread first, after searching the internet for anything on transference. So you are definitely among people who "get it".

That said, I'm sorry you are in so much pain. I am not currently dealing with transference feelings (at least not with a T), but when I first found this forum, I was experiencing very similar feelings as you are now, with the T I was working with at the time, and struggling to find a way to tell him and try to work through it (which is why I was searching the net in the first place).

One thing I was encouraged to hear is that your T already suspected you were feeling this way, and was waiting for you to bring it up with her. Also encouraging is that she believes it might take a while to get to the bottom of. That makes me think she has an understanding of attachment issues.

But then, I was a little concerned to hear that she doesn't want you to get "too dependent" on her. What I've learned on this site and through my own experience is that those of us with attachment issues actually heal when we are allowed to become somewhat dependent for a time (within reasonable boundaries, of course). However, all T's have the right to set their own boundaries for their own reasons, so no, I wouldn't take her boundary of "keeping therapy in the room" as an insult, but rather, just a boundary she has set for herself. What you will need to decide is whether that will work out for you or not.

However, I believe that it hurts like crazy. And depending on what you need right now, her approach may or may not end up working out for you in the long run. There are therapists who would respond differently to your needs for out of session contact. Please keep talking here and reading other people's stories and asking questions, and hopefully you will find some shared experiences that might help clarify your needs and choices regarding your therapy. This site has been invaluable in helping me that way.

Peace,
SG

Hi Strummergirl! Thanks for the reply.

Im really glad i found this forum cause i too have been googling transference for a while now, but wasnt able to come up with much. I also posted my story on another forum but got no reply, so im off to a much better start here.

What do you mean that i would have to decide whether the no email thing will work out for me or not? Do you mean that if i decide that it doesnt work for me that i should leave and find a new therapist? I couldnt imagine ever doing that. This therapist is employed by the school i go to, so eventually i will have to leave her when i graduate but it wont be any sooner. Im dreading the day when i wont be able to see her again. She is the perfect therapist for me. Because of my anxiety, it took me a while to get comfortable with her, and i still am fairly quiet when im with her. But she knows exactly how to speak to me. She speaks quietly, shes warm, and shes understanding. She is the only person ive ever opened up to, and the only person i remotely trust. I have confidence and self-esteem issues though so im always wondering whether she actually cares about me or not, so i wish she would do a little more to show me that she does. (like allowing me to email her)

Do you think its appropriate to ask her if she would be willing to change her policy a little bit for me about emailing? I feel as if im a special case because of my situation, and that the benefit would be much greater if she would just allow me to email her when i really need it and perhaps email me back with one or two lines of encouragement. I understand where she is coming from, but i dont get how me emailing her once in a while, and her sending me a very short message back can do harm. Just knowing that i have that safety net if things go really bad is reassuring. My last session with her, i tried to explain to her my side of the story and how much it hurt to wait all week and not receive a reply back from my email. Next time we meet we are supposed to continue that convo and im hoping i can get her to understand how much it really means to me and perhaps convince her to try it my way, but im not sure if thats appropriate and how i should go about doing that.

What do you think? and do you have any advice with dealing with the emotional pain. I need something to help me through these next couple of weeks.

Again thanks for replying!
Josh

Hi Josh,
Welcome to the forums. I am glad that you've found us as we really do get what you are going through. I am sorry, I know this can get incredibly painful. Like SG, I was glad to hear that your T is so accepting of your feelings. It was very courageous of you to tell her you felt that way and I am glad that she reacted so well. Therapy is a place where you should be safe to talk about how you are feeling.

I have worked through my transference with my T (mainly, there are bits and pieces here and there I'm still working on) and volutarily stopped going regularly about a 16 months ago. His door is still open and I go back probably about every 4-6 weeks, basically anytime I run into something I'd like help with.

My T had different boundaries about outside contact (he still allows me unlimited emailing and calling, although again, I don't do so nearly as often now) as he felt like it was important to be able to access your attachment figure when you needed them, you never could tell when the need would occur. So there was a long period where I was pretty dependent on him, but I did outgrow it and do not need him in the same way anymore.

The best advice I can give you is to keep going back and talking about how you're feeling. All of it, the pain, the longings, the wanting to email, etc. It was as I talked about what came up for me in the relationship that I learned about my underlying beliefs and traced them to their roots so I could learn to change them. I do want to encourage you that it is possible to work through this and heal, although I don't want to mislead you, it was very painful at times and the hardest work I've ever done.

As SG said, there's a lot of good material here on the forum, I would search on both "transference" and "attachment." Also, I write a lot on these topics on my blog, you may find some of what I write helpful. The link is in my signature.

And please feel free to ask questions, there are a lot of very knowledgeable people here with a lot of experience.

AG

Hi AG! Thanks for replying!!!

I think i will take your advice and discuss all these feelings the next time i see her. I told her about my transference, but never really went into too much detail about the pain, longing wanting to email...etc, cause i was too embarrassed. Now i see that this is something i will have to bring up if i want to properly deal with this, im nervous but also a little excited to bring it up. It sucks that ill have to wait a couple of weeks though before i can talk about it. Keeping all these thoughts and feelings inside is not fun.

Ill take a look at the material on the forum about transference and attachment, any advice on where to start?

Also, do you think i should be insulted by this? I asked my therapist in our last session if she was willing to see me one more time during the week before the break because i had a lot of stuff on my mind that i felt i needed to talk about before the holidays. She said that she only sees students/patients more than once a week for exceptional circumstances. This hurt cause i felt i needed another session and because i felt like this was an exceptional circumstance. I didnt have a session the week before cause of exams, and because of the whole email thing took up our whole last session, i wasnt able to talk about the other things bothering me at all. It just hurts when she doesnt consider me a special case and always denies my requests. Should i take these things as a sign that she doesnt really like me and doesnt want to see me or hear from me? cause thats what it feels like. Like she doesnt care about me and im just another student she sees and forgets about the second i leave the room.

Thanks for reading!
Josh

Hi Josh,

So glad to hear that you are finding this site helpful.

quote:

What do you mean that i would have to decide whether the no email thing will work out for me or not? Do you mean that if i decide that it doesnt work for me that i should leave and find a new therapist?

That would be one option (although a really painful one, I understand). Another option would be to accept her boundaries and tell her how that feels to you and work through that in the therapy with her. As AG said, it sounds like she's really accepting about hearing your feelings, so I hope you can talk to her about it.

quote:

Do you think its appropriate to ask her if she would be willing to change her policy a little bit for me about emailing?

Personally I think as patients we should be able to ask for whatever it is we think we need from our T's. I don't ever think asking is inappropriate. However, our T's have the right to say "no" to what we are asking for. It sounds like you already have asked her to change her boundary for you - which I think it was okay to ask - but she has said no, and now you are feeling hurt and insulted. At this point, I think it would be okay to talk about how you are feeling about her answer and explore that in your therapy, so that you can learn more about yourself. But to continue pressuring her to change her boundary - no matter how justified it may seem to you - personally I don't think that's the right focus. Perhaps if you confide more to her about how painful this is to you, talking only about your feelings, she may decide on her own that your case is exceptional and then change the boundary for you. But to focus directly on changing her boundary - I do not think that is the right focus. But that is only my opinion.

I really really do understand how painful this is, Josh. As for dealing with the emotional pain, reading and posting on this forum helped with that immensely. Just being able to talk with people who understood how I was feeling, to feel "not alone" in this, helped tremendously. Finding a T with whom I could talk about anything helped a great deal, too. Eventually, after a couple of years with her, and still having a considerable amount of emotional pain, I decided to try an antidepressant, and that has proven to be a really really good decision for me. It has allowed me to internalize many many truths that I was told or realized intellectually in therapy, but could never absorb emotionally before. It has made so many things "click" in the way I only wished it would before. I now suspect that I've had clinical depression probably all my life, but for whatever reason, was not describing my feelings in the right way in order to be properly diagnosed. But that is no one's fault, just the way it worked out. At some point you may want to consider that as an option, too.

Good luck continuing the convo in your next appointment! Let us know how it goes.

Peace,
SG

Hi SG,

Thanks for replying! Having you and Attachment Girl reading and replying to my posts means a lot to me. I can use all the advice and guidance i can get.

I understand what you are saying about accepting her boundaries, i just find it very tough. I respect her boundaries, i dont want to be a bastard and go against her requests, i would actually feel very guilty if i did that. But at the same time, i have a hard time accepting it. It feels as if i need these exceptions to function, and without her allowing me to email as an example, its just making me feel worse and more depressed. How can you truly accept something when its doing harm to you?

As for antidepressants, ive been on a couple different ones over the last 2 years to help with my anxiety and depression, but i still havent been able to find one that properly helps both. Its frustrating but im still trying.

Ill definitely keep you guys updated on my next convo with my T.

Thanks
Josh

quote:

Also, do you think i should be insulted by this? I asked my therapist in our last session if she was willing to see me one more time during the week before the break because i had a lot of stuff on my mind that i felt i needed to talk about before the holidays. She said that she only sees students/patients more than once a week for exceptional circumstances. This hurt cause i felt i needed another session and because i felt like this was an exceptional circumstance. I didnt have a session the week before cause of exams, and because of the whole email thing took up our whole last session, i wasnt able to talk about the other things bothering me at all. It just hurts when she doesnt consider me a special case and always denies my requests. Should i take these things as a sign that she doesnt really like me and doesnt want to see me or hear from me? cause thats what it feels like. Like she doesnt care about me and im just another student she sees and forgets about the second i leave the room.

Josh,
How you're feeling is totally understandable but I think it's more about your past than actually about your therapist. She is actually holding good boundaries and keeping a consistent frame around therapy. A therapist actually had to be careful to treat all their clients the same as making one "special" can be an indication that they are letting their own feelings affect YOUR therapy which isn't good for anyone.

One of our very strong needs as children is to feel special, and know that we are very important to our caregivers. If we did not get that, we are still looking for it. So your T refusing to make an exception for you may be evoking deprivations and unfulfilled longings from your childhood and leaving you feeling like you don't matter. But giving you special treatment could hold out a promise she could NOT fulfill of finally providing you what you didn't get as a child. It is less damaging to hear "no" in the first place than to experience even an "implied" broken promise.

There's a post on my blog Therapy isn't enough that might explain this better.

As far as getting started on the forum, I would use the brown "Find" button at the top of the forum page and perform two searches. One on the word "attachment" and one on the word "transference" then browse through the search results and look for stuff you relate to. It's also perfectly ok to keep asking specific questions.

AG

Thanks AG! It feels so much better hearing someone else who is not emotionally invested in my situation explain things rationally. While it still hurts to think about it, hearing that these type of boundaries from therapists and my feelings about them are normal makes me feel somewhat better.

I really enjoyed your post on your blog on this subject as well. A lot of the stuff you were going through i can relate to and am glad to know that you managed to fight through it, so there is still hope for me yet .

Im a little nervous to keep on posting more questions, i feel like im starting to sound like a broken record and a pest. Its my nature to obsess over certain things over and over again, and id hate to wear out my welcome here.

Thanks,
Josh

quote:

Originally posted by Strummergirl:
But then, I was a little concerned to hear that she doesn't want you to get "too dependent" on her. What I've learned on this site and through my own experience is that those of us with attachment issues actually heal when we are allowed to become somewhat dependent for a time (within reasonable boundaries, of course).

Hi everybody,

I spent a lot of time the last day or so reading past threads on transference and attachment hoping it would cheer me up. I would say it helped a little in some way, but also made me worry more. The above quote worries me. I noticed that in a lot of threads concerning transference and attachment, it was said that therapists sometimes have to allow us to attach to them in order for us properly heal, pushing us a way could possibly make things worse. (my wording is probably not so good). Anyways, im really worried that my therapist may not realize this or just doesnt care and that she could end up making things worse, or i could be stuck feeling like this forever. Is it possible to heal from the transference/attachment without being allowed to feel the secure attachment that i need to heal? I mean, i understand that my therapist has her own boundaries. She never really mentioned if i can call her or not (i would be too afraid to anyways), but she did specify that she would prefer to keep the therapy in the room, and that i dont email her. She never said i couldnt email her, but she did say she may not respond to my email. (so emailing her and not getting a response would make things worse). I feel i need something more in order to feel better, something more frequent or ill never feel better. If she doesnt see it my way though, i dont know if i can or ever will feel better.

Anyways, im sort of rambling on here, i hope you can understand what im trying to say. With the boundaries my therapist set, am i doomed to feel like this forever because she wont allow me to attach to her for a short period? Does it sound like she might not be well qualified to help me deal with this? If i dont get that extra attention, can i still heal properly even if i cant feel the attachment i feel i need? Help me please!

I hope i properly articulated my problem and question

Thanks for reading,
Josh

Hi Josh,

You were very articulate with your concerns and I'm sorry you are feeling so worried. I want to apologize for giving the impression that what I described is the only way to heal. I honestly don't know if you have attachment issues or not, Josh, and I also don't know that what I've described is the only way to heal from it. It's just what has made the most sense to me, in my situation, and I've done my best to try and get that "kind" of therapy. However, I've not been able to get it, exactly. Still, I've made a lot of progress. My therapy and healing have not followed the exact same path as anyone else's, but that is to be expected, that we each have our own unique needs, and each person's path of healing is going to look a bit different.

Ultimately, I really think your next step is to talk to your T about everything you've been thinking/feeling, as you are ready to share it with her. As you do that, what you need from your therapy will be clearer. I don't think there are any guarantees that she is qualified to help you. There are several of us here who have had to switch T's mid-stream when we found out our T's were not qualified to help us. It does hurt like crazy...but ultimately I found a T who was much better equipped to help me, and others have, too. On the other hand, your T may be qualified and able to help you once you are more open and honest with her. There is no way to know except to try. I'm sorry it's so scary, and again, I'm sorry if I made your fear worse. I only meant to reassure you that there is nothing wrong with feeling like you want that, and it may be what you need. But then again, it may not be. Hopefully your T can help you sort it out. We are here to support you, either way.

Peace,
SG

Thanks SG!!! I could never imagine leaving my therapist so im praying that she is properly equipped to deal with this. Is there a difference between transference and attachment? I know im suffering from transference, so i assume that means im having attachment issues. Could i be wrong? I feel like im having attachment issues but am not 100% sure after what you said. So i hope you or someone else can give me a proper definition for it with examples, and how it differs from transference.

Ive also seen some mixed responses to this, but is transference considered a good thing or a bad thing? Does the fact that i reached this high level of transference indicate progress in therapy? Ive read on this forum from a number of people that transference is a positive thing, i just dont see how with all the negative emotions and pain im going through. So im wondering if there is something im missing that would allow me to look at it more optimistically.

Thanks again SG!
Josh

Hi Josh,

I'm sorry I didn't respond sooner, the last few days have been kind of crazy!

Your questions are all really good ones. The thing is, I can only answer you from my experience. I can't diagnose you or tell you what you "should" do, so I'm hesitant to try and answer your questions. I really think your T should be the one to do that.

ShrinkLady has an explanation of Attachment Issues on her main site. She also has an explanation of transference in psychotherapy. I am by no means any kind of authority on the subject, but my understanding is that my attachment issues (if I have any) will make themselves known, at least in part, by the kinds of assumptions I make about my relationship with others based on my past experience(or "transference"). When I do this in real life, it may or may not be clear how I'm doing this. But hopefully in therapy my T does not "react" to what I do, but helps me see what I am doing so I can learn more about myself and then, hopefully, help me make the changes I want to make, if any.

I don't think transference is good or bad, it's just something we all do in everyday life. We develop expectations of what will happen in new situations based on what's happened in past situations. So if we grew up learning that getting close to someone meant getting hurt, then we may develop that expectation with everyone and become extremely reluctant to get close to anyone. But we are human and made for connection, so eventually that gets painful, too. Then we may end up in therapy needing to untangle all of this and learn (or relearn) how to get close enough to get the connection with others we need.

I hope this helps a little. I feel extremely underqualified to say much more about any of this, as I don't really know much at all about you or your particular situation. I really hope you can risk bringing all of this up with your T and give her the chance to work through this with you as she knows you much better than I do. But we are here for support and encouragement as you go through it!

SG

Thanks SG!

Hi Josh and welcome,

From my experience, it's hard to say if transference is a positive or a negative. To a child who has no father and finds a father figure in a therapist, then it can have a very positive effect. On the other hand, as many on this board can attest to, in can also be so painful. I have strong feeling towards my former T. I miss her so much. I didn't feel comfortable talking to my former T about transference at all. So I sought out a new T. When I finally told my former T about my feelings and how I had been seeing a new T, she suggested I continue seeing my new T. I was crushed! I wanted her to work through my transference with me, but instead, she asked me to go away. I thought, how is this possible? I thought she cared about me? I should have voiced these questions but I didn't. I tucked the feelings away and left her office extremely hurt.

I lived with the pain for 7 unbearable months. There were so many negative feelings that came along with thoughts of my former T. I thought, she's sitting there laughing at me. She must be so relieved to be done with me. In working through the pain with my new T, my new T suggested I go back and confront my former T. I should get answers to my questions. So I did. I expected my former T to lay it all out there. I thought she was going to tell me how happy she was to get rid of me. What a relief it was to have me out of her office and life. What I found when I had this meeting with my former T was a caring and compassionate woman who only wanted what was best for me. She had no idea that I left so hurt. She apologized profusely and told me she was here for me if I needed her. I could tell that she did care about me. We cleared the air. I still miss her very much, but all those negative feelings have been replaced with positive ones. When I think of her, I think of someone who really wants to help me. Her door is open to me but I continue on with my new T.

My point is, I was told on this forum that the pain does lessen but the transference never really goes away. Now that's a hard pill to swallow. When I was first told this, I thought, you mean I will feel this miserable forever? The answer is No. I'll admit, I have been started on anti-depressants and that has helped. But I DO feel better. I can function now. I don't cry when ever I think of my former T. Sometimes I even smile when I think of her.

I'm not quite sure how, if and when I will ever let my former T go. But I am living my life again and feel good about it.

I hope that helps. Sorry so long. I types this on my phone so I apologize for any misspellings or auto words.

-SBR

-SBR

(((((SBR)))))

I'm so glad that you went back to your former T and now feel better about the way things ended. I'm sorry that it's all still so painful though.

Liese

Thanks for telling me your story SBR. Good for you going back to your former T after months, that was very brave of you. I doubt id have the guts to do something like that.

It scares me to think that the pain of transference really doesnt go away. I cant imagine living like this forever. How long would you say it took for it to become at least manageable? Also, besides the anti-depressants, did anything else change in your life that might have affected the strength of the transference, making it more tolerable. Perhaps you found a new friend/partner that helped fill part of the void. I ask this because im currently on anti-depressants as well, so what im feeling right now wont be getting more tolerable from my meds. I am also pretty alone, so im worried that without any other type of relationships outside of therapy, the chances of my transference getting better are slimmer since i really have no one else to distract me, or fill that attachment i need.

Thanks,
Josh

Hi Josh,

I believe that I am starting to feel the pain of transfernece lessen right now. It's always hard to say for sure because it's such a slow and gradual process. Josh, it takes time. Give yourself time to heal. The pain won't last forever, so I'm told. I definately feel better now than I did 2 months ago.

Everybody's journey through transfernce will be different because everybody has a different situation that they need to heal from. One of the most difficult things about this pain is that there is no road map to find healing. There is no recipe to fix it. You have to find your own way. But this entire group here on this forum is here to listen whenever you need. This group was one of the biggest and most important aspects to my healing.

As for my situation, I am married. My marriage wasn't going well. I was in pain for a long long time. So when I found support through marriage counseling, I found someone who I thought could cure the pain I was in. My marriage counselor understood me. She sympathized with me. I did not want a divorce. But I felt that I did not love my wife anymore. I loved my marriage T. I still kind of feel that way. I too, felt alone. My situation was not going to change. I either had to find a way to fall back in love with my wife or live in pain for the rest of my life. And honestly, I'm still working on that.

Josh, you need to stay positive. Things will change. If you have nobody except for your T right now, then their is still an opportunity for that void to be filled. You could bump into somebody today and it may make you think..."Therapist who?", "transference what?".

I hope that helps.

-SBR

PS:
(((((Liese))))))
So good to hear from you. I hope you are doing well!

quote:

Originally posted by StuckBetweenRock and HardPlace:
I hope that helps.

-SBR

It does! Thanks a bunch SBR!!!

Hi guys!

I dont want to continue sounding like a pest, but i have one more thing to ask. I took the advice of someone else earlier in this thread and decided to write a letter to my therapist about all the thoughts that are going through my mind right now, transference and everything else, and the plan is to give it to her the next time i see her (as long as i dont chicken out). This way if i forget to say something next session, or run out of time, she could still read everything that was going through my mind. Anyways, the letter is kind of long, and im not sure if its good or not and could use some feedback, its pretty personal, and some things in it i havent discussed here, but i want to make sure its good. Would anyone be willing to read it and let me know what they think?

Hi SGJ,
I don't mind reading it at all, but I am wondering when your next session is? I am just concerned I may not be able to get back to you in a timely manner. But feel free to PM me the letter and when you need it back by and I can let you know. Thanks.

AG

Sent. Thanks a bunch. My next session isnt till next Thursday so you have plenty of time.

If anyone else would like to read it, let me know.

Hi everyone,

I can see that there haven't been any new posts on this thread in a while, but this is the thread that helped me find this whole website, and the main reason I went looking for answers online.

I've been in therapy for about six months, and I think I've been feeling transference with my therapist. I did not understand what was going on with my emotions, so I did some research online and finally found out about "transference." I am thankful to everyone on here for showing me that I am not crazy, that these feelings are normal and happen to lots of people. That in itself is comforting.

Lately I have been having a lot of anxiety (in general and) about my life (finding a job in my field, dealing with a relationship that is ending, not having much of a social life, etc..) I find that I feel much better after a therapy session, and this seems to be the only time I feel good at all.

So therapy (and my therapist) is ALL I can think about. I think about my therapist every day. I have spent a lot of time googling her (all searches always come up with nothing, and yet I keep it up.) I have driven to her office on a couple occasions when I did not have an appt scheduled. I can't even explain why I did this, it's as if I had no control over my actions. Once I was there I got terrified that she would walk out at any moment, see me, and wonder what I was doing there, so I left quickly. I felt like such a stalker.

I feel an intense curiosity about her and her life outside of therapy. What would she say and/or do if I were to see her in the grocery store, for instance? We live in the same town so that is a real possibility. Would she be the same warm, caring person she is when we are in session? Or would she brush me aside (I don't think so, but I sometimes wonder if she is genuinely interested in me, or if I am just "part of the job.") I guess I suffer from low self esteem, as well as anxiety.

I find I am struggling with the one-sided-ness of our conversations. She does share some things about herself from time to time, when it will help her make a point or show me that I am not alone, etc. So I do not feel like she is deliberately hiding anything from me. I have just never asked her about herself, because I didn't know what (if anything) would be appropriate, and I would hate to have her tell me she didn't want to share something.

I do not want anything sexual. And I know I can't be her friend, but I still want more from her emotionally. I think. I don't actually understand all of what I am feeling so I don't know exactly what would make it better. But I feel like I want to go to therapy every day. I haven't asked if we could start doing two sessions per week instead of just one. I'm not sure if that would be acceptable and I don't think I could handle it right now if she said no.

I don't understand these feelings! I did not have a traumatic childhood, I was not neglected or abused, or anything I can think of where these feelings could be coming from. I am frustrated, as one person in this thread said, that no one told me that this would (or could) happen. It is unlike anything I have ever experienced...very strange and unexpected, and yet very intense.

I am afraid to tell my therapist about these feelings because I just can't imagine talking so candidly about such intense feelings in the present- it's easier to talk about the past. It's also easier to talk about other people or other things rather than what, or who, is right in front of me. And then the fear of not knowing how she will respond. I believe she would respond in an appropriate manner....I think she is well educated and experienced and therefore probably has had clients experience this before. And I realize that from what I have read on here that this is probably most important to talk about, but I cannot see myself doing it. It is too scary. And embarassing. How do you work up to it?

Any responses would be greatly appreciated....thanks! Sorry so long, this is my first time on any type of forum...I just had to get these feelings out somehow.

Hi Coco...

I'm glad you found us and that what you read here was helpful. I am also pleased that you decided to post. I know it can be scary the first time but it will be worth it to join the community and share and get lots of support and understanding.

As you may have learned, all of what you feel and what you are doing we have all done too in one way or another. When you want to be near your T or you search on line for information you are proximity seeking... you long to be near her because this makes you feel calm and more secure. I believe she has become an attachment figure for you. You say you didn't have a traumatic childhood but perhaps you did not have a proper attachment to your parents/caregivers and this wound is unhealed and why you are reacting in this way regarding your T.

Have you read any of the threads on here about attachment? I would also recommend highly AG's (Attachment Girl) blog where she writes so well about feelings that develop in therapy with your therapist. There is a link for this on any of her posts.

I know it's scary to discuss all of this with your T. I would suggest that maybe you just ask her what she knows about attachment or attachment injury or insecure or unresolved attachments. If you feel that you need to be in therapy twice per week and that you feel you are working and have a lot to discuss or address then I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for twice a week sessions. I see my T twice a week and it really helps me to get from session to session.

I hope to hear more of your story and why you decided to go to therapy and I also hope you find support and reassurance here on the Board.

TN

Hey Coco!

I am feeling so uninspired right now that I really can't think of anything useful to tell you. Umm, transference sucks! Talking about it is really scary and usually feels humiliating to me. But...it can be done. My T says that when something is hard to talk about, it's OK to spend a while talking about the difficulty of talking itself. Weirdly, I've found this to actually help.

I hope you find lots of help here and certainly most of us know exactly what you are dealing with, which might make it a little more bearable.

Coco, hi.

I've been through some of what you are talking about. And, the feelings actually come and go (I've been with my T 21 months). They got pretty intense at some point in my early therapy and I did not talk about it with T (which I regret). I think it was just 3 months ago that I finally told her, "I just feel so attached to you." My T responded, "Why do you think that is?" In talking to her about my feelings, the intensity lessened, which was good for me, because it affected my daily life, thinking about her so much. I also had great worry about losing her (i.e. in ending therapy). She also comforted me by saying that her door is always open, and even if I took a break from therapy (or "ended" it) I could always go back.

quote:

How do you work up to it?

I think you may just do it when you feel ready. When you trust your T enough. When you are comfortable. It may just take time. I think it is a good sign that at the end of the session you feel pretty good.

Hi True North, BLT, and Ninn. Thank you for such speedy responses, and for such encouraging words and advice!

Have you read any of the threads on here about attachment?

I have read a bit about attachment, and honestly I don't really understand the difference between attachment and transference. They seem very similar to me, and similarly upsetting. I was not expecting anything like this to happen. I am still trying to just accept the fact that I even have these feelings, and how can they be real when I hardly know anything about my T?

I hope to hear more of your story and why you decided to go to therapy and I also hope you find support and reassurance here on the Board.

I started therapy originally because I was frustrated at always trying to lose weight and never reaching my goal. I am not severely overweight, and would often come within 5 or 10 pounds of my goal and then everything would change and I would gain weight again. I have realized since I started therapy that for me it is not really about the weight at all, but rather about being happy with my body and myself the way I am.

My T pointed out to me that I have low self esteem, and self confidence, so that is one thing I have been working on with her. I have also learned that I have issues with codependency, and this is another problem for me that I am trying to work on. But again, I don't understand where it came from as I was not abused as a child and there have never been alcoholics in my life. The one thing I can think of is that my mom has always been codependent/anxious/overprotecting/I-don't-want-to-disappoint-her. So maybe I just learned it all from her....that could maybe explain the attachment issues too I guess...

I also have a lot of anxiety, which seemed to get better for a while, but now that I am feeling this way about my T it has come back fairly strong. Whenever I even consider talking to her about this my chest tightens and heart starts to race and I have to try to just breathe through it. It's not sudden like panic attacks, it's more like a constant ache that only seems to go away occasionally.

Ultimately, I overeat, or eat comfort or sugary foods in order to try to feel better, so the weight and body issues will probably not be resolved until I am feeling better in general and more steady and grounded with my emotions.

TN[/QUOTE]

I tried reply with quotes from True North, but it didn't quite work right...can anyone tell me how to do this?

Also, BLT mentioned talking about the weirdness of talking. This sounds much more doable to me right now since it is really the talking about it that is freaking me out right now. thanks!

I have a session later today, and I am not planning on bringing up any transference or attachment issues (I am not ready yet), but maybe I will try sometime soon.

Hi Coco,
Welcome to the forums.

In order to quote someone, you click on the quotes button at the top of the reply window (there's a row of brown buttons). that will place the word quote in brackets followed by the word quote preceded by a backslash in brackets. Copy the text you want to quote, then click in the space between the ending bracket of the first quote and the beginning bracket of the ending quote quote] <click here>[/quo (I only used part of it since typing the whole thing would get it parsed). Then paste in the text (Ctrl-V).

As far as transference and attachment, I can see where there is some confusion as often the two go hand in hand. Attachment refers to our relationship to our therapist, in that for some people, the therapist becomes a "stronger, wiser other" upon whom we feel like we can depend to help us feel safe and handle our feelings. Once that attachment starts to form, people with insecure attachment styles tend to "transfer" the dynamics of their earliest interactions with their primary caregivers in childhood on to the relationship with the therapist. The therapeutic relationship functions on two levels: the real and symbolic. The real is about the here and now actual interactions while the symbolic is about the feelings and expectations you bring because of your past. It can be confusing and difficult to sort them out.

I know TN recommended reading my blog (Thanks TN! ) and I really think the article Disorganized Attachment or Why You Think You're Crazy but You Aren't? might really help.

AG

Coco, I have had a hard time too distinguishing between transference and attachment. There is so much overlap between the two.

Attachment can refer to any very close relationship such as a romantic partnership, but is most commonly refers to the relationship between a child and caregiver. Depending on personal history, the style of a therapist, and other factors, many of us form a kind of attachment relationship with our T's. Essentially the reason this happens is that we are trying to get from out T's something that we needed but didn't get from our parents when we were smaller. It doesn't mean you necessarily had an awful childhood. For example, I had a generally happy childhood, but my mother was emotionally volatile when I was little and I didn't feel like I could rely on my parents to be a stable base for me emotionally (they had their own problems), so I attached to my T trying to get this security I didn't have. Other people might have felt their parents didn't fully understand or pay attention to them in some way, or that they didn't do enough to affirm their worth, and look for these things in a T also.

You'll also hear people talk about "secure" versus "insecure" attachment and different attachment "styles." There is only one kind of secure attachment, which means that as a child you felt safe knowing that your caregiver would be there for you. In terms of insecure attachment, it's usually divided into three types: anxious/preoccupied, avoidant/dismissive, and disorganized. Anxious attachment means you behave in a clingy way because you're constantly afraid of your attachment figure not being there for you when needed. Avoidant means that you act as though you don't need close relationships at all, because your caregiver was so unavailable that you simply gave up on the whole thing and became very independent. Disorganized is the rarest type and means that you were actually afraid of your own caregiver (usually because of abuse) and so you weren't sure whether to move towards them to get the comfort of being close to someone, or to avoid them to avoid getting hurt. In practice some people might have a combination of these styles, depending on the circumstance.

Transference basically means that feelings, expectations, or dynamics from a previous relationship get transfered onto someone else, like your T. An example would be that if my parents yelled at me when I cried, I might be afraid to cry in front of my T and expect her to react in the same way. Transference actually happens all the time with people in our lives, but it can become amplified in therapy and therefore be more obvious.

The way these overlap is that if we do become attached to a T, it usually results in a LOT of very strong transference. All our longings, fears, expectations, etc. about our parents from our childhoods tend to play out all over again in our relationship with our T's. And whatever attachment style we had with our parents when we were little will usually transfer to our T's as well.

I hope that helped a little... It can still be really confusing at times.

Hi Coco, welcome to the forums!

Ah transference, been there, done that, got the t-shirt, like they say. Actually I'm still very much there. I've also been seeing my T for 6 months now, but I came across transference feelings sooner than that, maybe 2 months into therapy. Reading about everyone else's experience here helped immensely to feel "normal" and okay about it, having those kind of feelings about your T is so common and actually a sign that therapy is going well! I also suggest you read AG's blog and the threads here related to transference, post if you have questions or doubts, being informed about it is the best thing you can do to stop being afraid of it. I remember feeling "cheated" because I never knew feeling this way about a T could happen! It can be really scary.

But the truth is you and your T are both in a relationship, a therapeutic one yes, but nevertheless a relationship, of course people have feelings about it. I think about him ALL the time too, he has a little sofa in my right side lobe

Driving past a T's office outside therapy times is something I've read loads here, you're certainly not alone on that. The most I've done was googling him and finding his website (he asked before if I've seen it so I think he actually wanted me to look him up) and some of his articles. I ended up blocking his site from my computer, I don't want to be tempted to look him up. Sometimes I'm also scared that maybe one of these days these feelings will go out of proportion and I'll lose control/go completely insane and invade his privacy and behave inappropriately towards him, maybe he'll call the police and get angry at me and I'll never see him again. But I think this is a thought that comes from the fear of being rejected after exposing myself and my feelings to him.

Even if my feelings for him escalated to a point where I can't help myself and my actions I certainly wouldn't be the first nor the last.

I've never told him directly about my transference but I have mentioned that I do like to talk to him and that I find him interesting, and I found out that talking about it does help to regulate these emotions.

Best of luck to you Coco, and I hope I'll see you around

Thank you AG for showing me how to quote, and also for your blog. I read the attachment link you posted and it was very interesting. I definitely relate to a lot of what you wrote, although I haven't told T about any of it.

BLT, thank you for the very clear description of attachments, that was very helpful. I am still a little confused about where attachment ends and transference begins, but I understand a little more now.

quote:

I came across transference feelings sooner than that, maybe 2 months into therapy.

Sometimes I'm also scared that maybe one of these days these feelings will go out of proportion and I'll lose control/go completely insane and invade his privacy and behave inappropriately towards him, maybe he'll call the police and get angry at me and I'll never see him again. But I think this is a thought that comes from the fear of being rejected after exposing myself and my feelings to him.

Eliana, I also started to feel these feelings much earlier on, but I dismissed them because they didn't make sense to me, and I thought it would pass. But in the past few weeks it's only gotten much much stronger, and I also fear that the feelings will get out of control causing me to invade T's privacy (which is not something I would ever do on purpose.) I just feel like I can't control my thoughts and feelings, and that is very frightening. But I agree that it probably stems from a fear of rejection.

It does help to know that I am not the only one experiencing this. I never knew until now that it was so common. I am glad I decided to post, and thankful for all of the responses. Makes me feel like I matter :-)

quote:

I remember feeling "cheated" because I never knew feeling this way about a T could happen! It can be really scary.

So true, same here! "Blind-sided" is the word that comes to mind! I've been in therapy for about 11 months now, and I'm JUST NOW starting to recognize the tsunami of emotions for what they are; transference for what it is, and that my feelings TOWARDS my therapist aren't always about him.

Starry

Does anyone have any other suggestions about how to start the attachment/transference conversation with T? I know many people have said to ask what they know about it, but this seems rather unnatural to me.

I want to bring it up because then maybe I can start to get past it, but I am so embarassed. Not to mention frightened. But my T is all I can think about every day, so something's gotta give.

Start with "this is embarrassing" and then blunder your way through somehow. At least, that's the only way I've ever managed it

hi, Coco. i took the cowardly route and sent an email. then we talked about it, a little. we had actually talked about transference prior to that. it was more of a negative transference then, though (of which i still struggle ... i like HIM, it's more of an issue with authorigy figures of which he fits the bill). the email was more of an unveiling of my feelings of attachment towards him. i knew if i didn't sent an email i'd never actually bring it up myself in session so it's not like i had much of a choice. i HAD to do something because like you, he was ALL i could think about and it became rather excruciating. i know your feelings of embarassment and being scared, but this is what therapy really is about, is the relationship between you and your T. i hate it, too. but that is what it's about, and i still have to remind myself of that. you can do it, and trust me you'll be glad you did. the intense longing has eased a LOT though it can still rear it's head, but not so strong anymore. that may change, but i took the first step and it helped alot. i hope this helps. i dont' know what else to say. i wish you the best of luck in whatever you decide to do, but i do encourage you to discuss this with your T. it'll be a scary session to go to, but you'll be so glad you brought it up afterwards. good luck and hugs!

Have you tested the field at all with your T? I know some Ts will disregard feelings of transference completely while others think is the best thing since sliced bread. Do you have any idea what are your T's feelings about it? Has your relationship even been mentioned?
If so you can always say "there's something I should tell you but I'm not sure how" or mention how you've been feeling intense about the sessions. Nothing wrong with beating around the bush for a while if you feel insecure about it :P
And like closed doors mentioned, you could write it down and hand it to your T, maybe that would be easier. Let us know how it goes please! I actually feel nervous for you as I'm in the same situation!

quote:

Have you tested the field at all with your T? ... Do you have any idea what are your T's feelings about it? Has your relationship even been mentioned?

We have never really talked about our relationship, that is partly why I am so scared. Although, on her website she does say that she believes that a strong client-therapist relationship is the key to success. So I guess that is encouraging, but still vague.

Really I have no idea how she will respond. I will probably end up doing a combination of what everyone has been saying...sending a vague email, then beating around the bush in the session, and eventually blundering my way through it. I think I like the email idea, that way she can have a warning. And she has encouraged me to email her if I need any extra support between sessions, which I am thankful for because I've read on here that some therapists don't allow any contact.

These are all good suggestions...now any idea how to not be afraid or embarassed? <---rhetorical question, I don't think there's any getting around it.

sorry, Coco ... dont' think there's a way around that one. them's your feelings and they're normal and okay and you're not alone. i know first-hand it's scary, but from what is said on your Ts website you'll do just fine. keep us posted, and good luck to you!

I did it! I told my T about how attached I feel to her, and it wasn't the end of the world! (HUGE sigh of relief....PHEW!)

I was SO scared and nervous and my face was bright red. But she was so calm and understanding, telling me it's perfectly normal and that talking about it is the best thing I could do. She said she was proud of me and that I was very Brave. (ahhh, I think I love her even more now....) Such a good session, and it's weird to think that it started out with one of the hardest things I've ever done.

((((COCO)))))

That's Great!

Thanks, guys!

Hi everyone!

Things have been going pretty well with my therapist in terms of transference/attachment lately. However, i think i just made a huge mistake and im kind of freaking out about it.

I was really bored and lonely tonight so i decided to google my therapist's name just to see what pops up. Ive done this so many times and have never found anything significant. However, this time i did a little more digging and managed to find a little blurb that mentions her husbands name. Of course i was curious, so i googled her husband's name, and managed to find his facebook account. Then through his facebook account, i managed to find my therapists facebook account. Im feeling so pathetic and guilty right now. My therapist doesnt use her full name on facebook, so clearly she doesnt want people finding her, yet im such a stalker that i was able to. I feel like i really invaded her privacy and that ive really gone too far and hit a new low.

I dont know what to do now, this is really depressing me, i just feel so guilty for what ive done. Ive been able to be pretty honest with her during our sessions, but i dont know if i can get the courage to bring this up. This is really stalker territory, and there is a chance that this really freaks her out and she asks me to see someone else. At the same time, if i dont bring it up, i will feel even more guilty. I really hate myself right now. Does anyone have any advice?

Thanks

PS. My therapist is leaving me soon for the summer, and im not sure how and if ill be able to handle it. The longest ive gone without seeing her was 3 weeks, and that was torture.

Hi Josh,
I agree with Dragonfly; please don't be too hard on yourself about this. I did a similar thing a few weeks ago and immediately I'd done it I wished I hadn't. I beat myself into a lather over it and sent my T. an e-mail apologising and telling her what I had done two days later, even offering to terminate my sessions. She responded by saying it was no big deal and no harm was done. I apologised again in person at my next session and all was forgotton since.
Tell your T if you feel you can, but don't worry and don't feel guilty, you've done nothing wrong.

Hi josh,

I also agree with Dragonfly and avoidant. Telling her is probably your best option. She should know that anything online is fair game (unless you hacked in by guessing a password or you are some computer genius or something... then maybe it's more of a gray area.) But the thing about transference is that it really feels like you can't control what you're doing.

I told my T about looking her up online and she didn't ask me about anything further. So I didn't end up telling her (as I planned) about finding her Pinterest account and from there finding her Facebook (but I can only see the front page because of her privacy settings, so it's only two pictures.) I did tell her I felt like a stalker and that I didn't want to feel that way and that I didn't mean to do these things.

I told her that sometimes I drive to her office building and sit in my car for a few minutes.... then I sort of "wake up" and realize I'm there and think "what I am doing?" Then I leave.

She didn't seem to think any of it was a problem. I said I was afraid I was being inappropriate and she said she thought it was totally normal and everything I felt was appropriate.

Perhaps if you started by telling her you are worried about her leaving and then bringing up the online stuff? Would that make it easier?

Like the others said, don't be too hard on yourself, transference is not easy to handle and we can only ever do our best.

Hugs and good luck!

Thanks for the advice Dragonfly, avoidant, and Coco. Im definitely going to mention it tomorrow at our next session. Im still feeling super guilty though, and just want to get this over with. All i want her to say is that she forgives me. There is still a big part of me that thinks ive crossed the line, and that she will ask me to see someone else, which of course i would never be able to handle. And then i would never forgive myself for mentioning it.

Ill keep you guys updated. Tomorrows session could not come soon enough....

Just a quick update. So i told her everything today. I feel that she took it well. She actually asked me what exactly i found out, she said she was curious. Anyways, i told her that i felt super guilty and was just looking for her forgiveness. She said that it wasnt her job to forgive me (whatever that means), but she wasnt angry at me. She also put to rest my fear that she might ask me to see someone else because of this by saying that this is very normal and that she feels this is something we can work through together.

Thanks for helping me through this guys.

Glad it turned out OK!!!

Hello. I just read the article and many of the forum posts about this topic- Highly informative/interesting stuff! Just to let you know a bit about my own experience... I am a married guy in therapy with a woman who is around my same age. I don't want to go in to too much detail, because it's a small world, but basically I have been dealing with transference for awhile now. I fit all the classic criteria for this problem, and I've researched it enough to identify where it comes from. I just wanted to pose a question to those who have dealt with it or possibly even a therapist who might see this. Is there a way for me to process this on my own without telling her? I mean is there a book out there or something that might give me a better grasp of how to overcome it? It would simply be too humiliating to even approach the subject with her! Not to mention the fact that I really think she's a great therapist! I don't want to go to all the trouble of starting over with someone else! If I told her about it one of two things would happen- Either she would terminate or try to help me with it. Or I would terminate shortly thereafter out of embarrassment. Either way it would end. I'm not so delusional that I believe that there is even the slightest chance anything could ever come of it with her, so at least I have that part covered. It is simply another brick in the ever growing brick wall of issues that I have. Not to mention the fact that I love my wife! But I already know enough to know that this whole transference thing is all about a missing parental connection. I'm a reasonably intelligent person. Just point me to the book I need to be reading right now? Please?

Hi soandso,

I love your name! and welcome to the forum. I wish I could tell you that reading a book will resolve the feelings, but unfortunately I really don't think it will. There's another thread on this forum about ending transference feelings and several of us that have posted there about reading Deborah Lott's book about transference, "In session." It focuses on women in therapy but you may find it helpful in terms of learning more about how others experience and work through transference. I bought it several years ago when I thought my P was going to terminate me, so, like you, I wanted a book to help me through. It was helpful and I need to re-read it, but reading a book isn't the same as processing feelings within the safety of therapy.

When I had extreme transference for my 1st P, I was never able to work through it with him because he ended his practice abruptly. I read all sorts of books to help me cope with the feelings I was left with. One of my favorites was "Good enough endings" because it helped me understand the value of working through the feelings before ending therapy, which is one reason I continued to try and find a T or P who could help me.

I understand the fear of being terminated for expressing your feelings, but most Ts and Ps are trained in how to handle this and she may be waiting for you to open up the topic. I know it feels very risky to open up about all of this with your T, because I'm at that point in therapy with my P.

Summer

Hi Soandso,
Welcome to the forums!

I very much agree with what Summer said. The problem is that these kind of intense feelings for a therapist usually have their roots in how we experienced relationships as a child. So there are two problems with trying to handle it ourselves.

Human beings cannot know themselves out of relationship and this is doubly true if we're struggling to understand and bring to consciousness, our unconscious patterns and behaviors (the ones that were formed during our early experience). In order for our therapist to gain insight and understanding into our behavior, we have to show them what is going on, very much including the feelings we are having for them. Therapists hold a deeply symbolic significance and often our reactions to them are very much rooted in our earliest experiences with our parents.

The other difficult aspect is that healing from this isn't about cognitive, explicit learning. I'm with you, I'd much rather be able to just find the right book. But how we change in therapy, especially in this area, is to have a right brain to right brain experience, while expressing our feelings and being heard and understood. By doing this, we explicitly learn a lot of the skills we need to and new ways of relating. We were injured in relationship and it is in relationship that we heal. Just from reading what you wrote, its sounds like you actually have a pretty good handle on what is going on, it's not lack of understanding that is making this hard. It's the fact that no matter how well we understand, we still have to feel the emotions and risk expressing them in order to heal.

I know it's very hard to speak about this, I seriously thought my T was going to terminate me when i told him how I felt. Turned out to be one of the best things I ever did. It has been very difficult, but I've been able to work through the feelings and my marriage is in better shape than it has ever been because risking and opening up to my T about these feelings has helped me learned to move closer in relationship. I would really urge you to talk to your T about these feelings.

AG

Thanks for the response Summer! I will certainly check out the books you mentioned. And yes, termination is definitely a concern. But honestly I think my T would probably handle it as professionally as she has handled everything else we've dealt with. I'm actually more afraid that I will terminate therapy with her because I'll be too humiliated to go back! I'm sorry you have experienced this nightmare yourself. Hope that you find success processing things with your current P.

Thanks for your thorough/insightful response Attachment Girl. As I said in my response to Summer-- I'm honestly more worried about my own response to telling than I am about her response. If she remains true to form, she'd probably be immensely supportive and understanding in helping me deal with it. The problem is I'd be so humiliated that I would stop going. Sometimes I really wish I could just get a therapist to help me deal with therapy!

I do understand what you're saying re: allowing ourselves to feel the emotions and risk expressing them... Unfortunately I have to weigh the pros and cons. She is helping me a great deal with the issues I brought to therapy to begin with. Her support has been absolutely vital to my mental health over the course of the last several months. So not only would I be risking the humiliation, I'd be risking my own stability right now. If I told her right now it would feel like I was pushing the self destruct button. Then on the other hand the transference is so consuming sometimes, it already sort of feels like that.

I appreciate the advice/help. And I am sorry that you had to go through transference yourself. I'm glad that it turned in to something more positive for you though!

A thought just occurred to me- Is there some way to deal with transference with your therapist without making the transference be about your therapist? Like if I could somehow deal with the underlying root causes of the problem? Maybe I could ask her if we could focus on childhood in some way? This is why a book that really delved in to the issue more deeply would be so helpful. Then I could try to get in tune with where it is coming from on a deeper level and bring those deeper issues up in therapy. Maybe that seems a bit dishonest, but bypassing the whole part of the conversation where I have to admit to having embarrassing feelings for her would make it so much easier! According to this whole concept of transference this is all rooted in my early experiences to begin with, so why are these delusional misplaced feelings of affection even important? The underlying issues are what need to be dealt with right? So maybe I just pinpoint what those are and bring those up to her? I'm just grasping at straws here. It all makes perfect sense in my head though!

Hi Attachment Girl, I seek your advice in regard to my intense feelings for my T. I understand how unique and precious the client/therapist relationship is. Her attentiveness, kindness and "holding" environment created has "swept me off my feet"! I now believe I am addicted to the dynamics of psychotherapy. Ironically, I'm seeing her for grief counselling. The attachment is sooooooo strong I don't want it to end! When it does end, I fear I will be going down the same path again, i.e. the pain of the loss of someone significant to me. I've been seeing her since the middle of last year, and I've expressed my dependency issues with her, and I have said that I need to work on them and try to overcome them. After verbalising my feelings, I experienced the worst fear possible, the fear of abandonment by my T. My fears haven't been realised, she's still travelling with me, and remains professional at all times. How can I weaken my feelings for her? Talking to her about my level of dependency has only intensified my feelings, i.e. obsessive thoughts. Do these obsessive thoughts (about my T) stem from anxiety connected to my grief? It is such a painful process, i.e. grief therapy and my feelings for her. In some ways I regret commencing the therapy, as I appear to have dug myself an even deeper hole! Any comments from you or anyone would be gratefully received! Abyss

Soandso, I just wanted to add that one of the best things I have gotten out of therapy is a greater tolerance for talking about things that felt "too embarrassing" to possibly face. I know it sounds counterintuitive, but talking to your T about embarrassing feelings can be incredibly healing. Don't miss that chance! It will be easier and less painful than you expect once you try it the first time.

(((SOANDSO))))

I have had the same desire many times: the wish to bypass something related to my T and just go around it. But somehow it doesn't go and away and just becomes the big elephant in the room. It was hard for me at first to reveal my feelings to my T and then go back and face him. Very hard. But it's gotten easier because he has been so accepting. Now I really trust that he's not going to turn on me or humiliate me in any way.

There are people out there who believe that, though the templates for this stuff was laid out in childhood, the feelings are very real and very much about the here and now. If I read Deborah Lott correctly, there has been a bit of a shift in terms of just chalking it all up to "transference" - which many women didn't find too helpful. As opposed to acknowledging the real feelings going on in the room between the client and the T. She seemed to find that the women who were able to work through it the best had T's took the middle road (I don't not love you but I don't LOVE you) but also acknowledged their own feelings for the client - albeit with restraint. And she seemed to indicate that our feelings just don't come out of nowhere. The T has a very real presence and as much as they try, their unconscious stuff enters the room and has an impact on us. It's a constant flow back and forth.

I wonder if you do decide to tell your T how you feel, if you can also share with her how you might feel coming back to face her, that you are afraid you will terminate. Maybe there is something she could say or do that might reassure you.

Nice to meet you btw.

((((ABYSS))))

Just wanted to send big hugs and let you know that I too experience the pain of transference and the obsessive thoughts. The question you pose is a good one about it being related to grief. I have read that "people like us" (doing a lot of inferring here) have a lot of unresolved grief. I've often felt the same way about loss that you do. I didn't enter into this relationship to fall in love only to find that I can't have and then to face the ultimate end anyway. Sometimes I do find that I tend to obsess more when I am anxious about something going on IRL or there's something that's difficult to face. Or when I just don't want to face the reality of my life at all - which is often, unfortunately.

Liese

Thanks BLT and Liese for your responses.

Liese: Interesting stuff re: Deborah Lott. I know that there are real feelings happening in the room with my T. Honestly that is the hardest part. I've basically convinced myself that I am delusional regarding her because that makes it easier to disconnect the emotion I am trying so hard to fight. But when I allow myself to think about the real things that triggered this to begin with, it is even more scary! Truth is I think my therapist and I have a lot in common from the things I've picked up over time about her personality/background. The reality for me is that if I wasn't married, and she wasn't my therapist, I think we might be very compatible human beings. She has responded to things about my life and my situation with some pretty unguarded reactions. In fact very often she even comments about reeling in her own reactions in session. I'm not an egotistical person whatsoever, but from a purely objective standpoint I think there is something about me that is triggering some sort emotion for her as well. Whatever that emotion is I don't know, and probably never will. I'm almost to the place that I feel like I should just stop sessions with her and find a male therapist. But then I'd feel like a jerk for terminating sessions with her without explanation. To answer your question, there probably is very little she'd be able to say to reassure me.

quote:

A thought just occurred to me- Is there some way to deal with transference with your therapist without making the transference be about your therapist? Like if I could somehow deal with the underlying root causes of the problem? Maybe I could ask her if we could focus on childhood in some way? This is why a book that really delved in to the issue more deeply would be so helpful. Then I could try to get in tune with where it is coming from on a deeper level and bring those deeper issues up in therapy. Maybe that seems a bit dishonest, but bypassing the whole part of the conversation where I have to admit to having embarrassing feelings for her would make it so much easier! According to this whole concept of transference this is all rooted in my early experiences to begin with, so why are these delusional misplaced feelings of affection even important? The underlying issues are what need to be dealt with right? So maybe I just pinpoint what those are and bring those up to her? I'm just grasping at straws here. It all makes perfect sense in my head though!

Soandso,
First I want to tell you that I DEEPLY understand you're wanting to find a clean solution that does not involve talking about these feelings. There have been many times where talking about these feelings has been embarrassing or felt humiliating. I have lost track of how many times I have complained to my therapist that my intellectual understanding of the process does not exempt me from having to talk about these feelings.

But if may gently point out, I think there is a flaw in your logic. These feelings are not delusional, they are real and you are really having them about your therapist. It's just that the intensity is fed by your formative experiences. Think of it as your interactions with your T are plucking a string that is vibrating at a frequency that is causing a lot of strings around it to also resonate, so the resulting sound is SO much louder.

Your feelings here and now, IN the relationship with your therapist, is how your unconscious is revealed. Our therapist observe our behaviors, looking for patterns to explore, which is how we can bring to light our deeper motivations, feelings and fears. My work with my T has been an intricate weaving between present and past. The starting point is how I am feeling about him and his actions and our relationship. Trying to understand those feelings often leads me to things in my past, some of them long buried and disavowed. When they come forth I am able to own them and fit them into my story and make sense of them and that helps to rob them of their intensity. But, I hasten to add in my experience, my feelings about my T have been the roadmap, and the compass which have allowed me to "see" the understanding issues.

So I understand your hesitation about speaking, and I also totally respect that this is your decision to speak or not speak and if you do decide to speak, to decide the time. I'm just not sure there's a way around the speaking that will allow you to get to what's underneath.

AG

Hi Abyss,
What you are going through sounds normal for someone who has experienced previous abandonment and loss. If we did not have the kind of security and love we needed as children, we end up with a "felt" experience of relationship that leads us to expect pain and we often organize our life around not getting hurt again (and in the process end up in a cell of our own making).

The truth is that loss is an inherent part of life but when we don't get what we need, we learn to believe that somehow pain is integral to love. So to avoid pain, we need to avoid love. But the truth is that pain is integral to life and love is the answer to that pain. That we move towards other people to face and survive the pain that we face, including someday losing them. But if you have never experienced that kind of supportive love, then moving towards someone feels like a life-threatening, dangerous thing to do.

Often in healing from these kinds of injuries, a certain level of emotional dependence can be necessary for a while to help us deal with all the unprocessed grief and feelings we never had help facing. As we fact those and learn to handle our own emotions, we then move through the dependency.

It sounds like you have a T who is comfortable and can handle how you are feeling. I would urge you to just keep talking about how you feel. It can talk a long time to heal and I know it is confusing and painful, but there is another side.

There are two posts on my blog I think you might find helpful:

What I learned in therapy Lesson 5 - The relationship of love and pain

Disorganized Attachment or Why You Think You're Crazy but Really Aren't

AG

AG,

Thanks for your kind/thoughtful/insightful response. I think your description of what is going on was totally spot on and VERY well put. It is basically on me at this point to determine whether or not I am ready to face these things head on with my T or not. This really resonated with me. The choice seems pretty clear- Either I choose personal growth or I stay stuck. There is no reward without personal risk right? I have a lot to think about. I just wish this wasn't so hard. Thanks again.

Hi Liese, big hugs to you too!! Thanks for your comments. Since my post the plot has thickened. My T has referred me to a P to investigate my so-called attachment disorder. I'm having difficulty making sense of it. Maybe I should drop therapy altogether, although I would like to prove to T that the investigation with a P will prove fruitless. Any thoughts from you or anyone would be great.

I am reading your posts, and many of the other posts, and I keep reading my story over and over again. Good, I am not the only one with these feelings. Even some of the actions people have taken I have done. I have had eroticised transference with two therapists one a man, and my current shrink, a woman! I am not even gay. I am married... to a man, but I have these very intense erotic fantasies with my shrink. I have been with my T for just over two years, and I have been obsessing over her and fantasizing with her for over a year. I had to tell her because when I first realized what was happening to me, I was attracted to my T, I had an anxiety attack. When I met with her I sat in front of her with my head down, and told her I was so embarrassed, and that it was difficult to tell her this but, I was attracted to her. I just spit it out, I had to. It was the best thing I could have done. Now these feelings are in the open and I can speak with her about how them. This revelation didn't amuse her, shock her, disgust her, or even impress, her she just listened. So my point is tell your T what you are feel. Muster the courage and spit the words out. I do not believe I am in love with my T, but that I have a crush on her. I always tell her i am attached to her, like a puppy wanting to jump up on her lap and let her pet me. However, I do want more. I hope this is helpful to anyone who is still struggling with telling there T they are attracted to them, or are falling in love, or have a crush, or just want to have sex with them.

quote:

Originally posted by Snape:
I am reading your posts, and many of the other posts, and I keep reading my story over and over again. Good, I am not the only one with these feelings. Even some of the actions people have taken I have done. I have had eroticised transference with two therapists one a man, and my current shrink, a woman! I am not even gay. I am married... to a man, but I have these very intense erotic fantasies with my shrink. I have been with my T for just over two years, and I have been obsessing over her and fantasizing with her for over a year. I had to tell her because when I first realized what was happening to me, I was attracted to my T, I had an anxiety attack. When I met with her I sat in front of her with my head down, and told her I was so embarrassed, and that it was difficult to tell her this but, I was attracted to her. I just spit it out, I had to. It was the best thing I could have done. Now these feelings are in the open and I can speak with her about how them. This revelation didn't amuse her, shock her, disgust her, or even impress, her she just listened. So my point is tell your T what you are feel. Muster the courage and spit the words out. I do not believe I am in love with my T, but that I have a crush on her. I always tell her i am attached to her, like a puppy wanting to jump up on her lap and let her pet me. However, I do want more. I hope this is helpful to anyone who is still struggling with telling there T they are attracted to them, or are falling in love, or have a crush, or just want to have sex with them.

You are soooo brave for telling your T! And your description of the puppy is pretty much on target! I guess it is just pride for me. I can't let go of my pride and be that person sitting on the couch so vulnerable and exposed in front of another human being. Because yes they are trained to know how to react to this stuff, but at the end of the day they are still people. Even the small risk that she'll have momentary thoughts crossing her mind that a total loser is sitting in front of her is too big of a risk for me to handle. Even though chances are she thinks that anyway deep down.

I had to tell my T how I was feeling, I was going nuts.
If I had not told her I couldn't make any further progress, because my feeling toward her were a total distraction. Believe me it was not easy telling her, I was shaking, and I thought I was going to throw up on her carpet, now THAT would have been embarrassing.

I am sure your T does not think you are a loser, I do not think you are a loser, it's like what my shrink told me, she just wants to be helpful. We are not the first to have a huge crush, attachment, love, intense desires for them, so don't feel you are unique and therefore, a loser for having your feelings. We all just want to feel better and that is what our T's are there to do, help us feel better.

Hi. I have been seeing a therapist now for a couple months or so. Maybe 3. Been seeing her 2x a week from almost the beginning. I was sexually abused as a child and have recently surfaced issues to include questioning my sexuality. I too am very attracted to my T. I think she is gay. I love her smile, her voice and personality. I fantasize being with her a lot of the time. The fantasies include her being in love with me as much as I believe i'm in love with her. I know this is not a relationship that will ever happen. My T has it together. I get so confused with love, sex and attachment. I'm am very attracted to my T and know I would be if I had met her elsewhere. It makes me want to quit therapy and deal with issues in new groups I recently joined. But I feel like I'm running away from a big issue. I know I should discuss this with my T but am embarrassed and feel stupid. Isn't it possible that I am really in love with her? I feel like I can't take being around her knowing it will go nowhere. I'm also very lonely which probably doesn't make it any easier.

Hi Kmatel,
Welcome to the forums, I'm glad you decided to post. What you're feeling sounds very familiar to me, as I went through something very similar with my T. It's important to recognize that the feelings you are having for your therapist are very real. It's not unusual that in such an intimate and honest relationship feelings of love would develop and there are many therapists that speak of love as necessary to healing.

But the therapeutic relationship is set up in such a way that is can be very easy to idealize the therapist and we know so little about them compared to other relationships, that it is easy to see what we long for in them. Especially since for many of us, we are receiving a level of attention and care that we have never received before. So the feelings are real, but are also a reflection of unmet needs, and our unconscious ways of relating. Because therapy is about your needs, it is the perfect place to become conscious of your feelings and learn how you do relationships. Which is why it can be so important to speak up about these feelings to your therapist, although I know that can be very scary.

I also know that the pain of not being able to have what you believe you want can be excruciating but I know for me, that intensity of that pain was fed by the resonance of what I experienced as a child, of not being loved and not getting what I needed.

There's a couple of posts on my blog, I think you might find helpful:

Erotic Transference

Disorganized Attachment or Why You Think You're Crazy But Really Aren't

If you haven't already done so, I'd encourage you to read older threads on the forum. Many members here struggle with these feelings and there is a lot of good information and posts on the topic. I would recommend doing a search on "transference" and browsing the threads which come up. I hope you can find help and support here. I'm looking forward to getting to know you.

AG

Thanks so much AG. I understood this when entering therapy. In fact, when I chose my T, (I met with a few) I did so because I clicked with her and I suspected she was gay. Since I also have sexual identity issues, I thought that this could help me. Also, in a way, I think that I was subconsciously attracted to her. In fact, I noted this in my journal which I let her read every session. But now that I think about her constantly and it comes down to expressing these feelings, I can't. I guess I "want my cake and eat it too" and because I think it's crazy to let myself get so close to someone but not be able to be friends, then I decided that traditional therapy is not going to be effective for me.

Reading your posts and the posts of others helped remind me of just why being friends/partners with your therapist is Not a good idea. Problem is, there's the part of me that so stronly yearns for mutual intimate emotional, spiritual and physical contact with her. This is what I need most to discuss with her. I have been basically heterosexual and am attracted to men but every so often, I meet a woman I am emotionally, spiritually and sexually attracted to. It causes me much confusion and I have become aware that some of this may stem from childhood. However, some women I have met have struck a chord with me but in only in a nurturing motherly way. A different kind of attachment issue which just confuses me more.

Up until 6-7 months ago, I had not really shared much of anything with anyone. (I had alluded to some childhood sexual abuse with a previous T but it was a one-two sentence statement). I have become so aware of just how much the childhood sexual abuse and lack of parental nurturing and constant negative reinforcement have impacted my life in every way, shape, and form. I have so many issues stemming from so many sources that I feel screwed up beyond all repair. All these issues have surfaced with a vengance and I find myself really struggling. I have joined a depression group and an SIA group and have reached out and shared with other's. This has helped as I had never opened up like this before but it is still difficult.

thanks for responding to my post.

km

Isn't it possible to not only experience erotic transfer with your T or someone else and yet be truely attracted to them, even if you they were not your T? I was attracted to my T from the start.

Kmatel,

Absolutely, your feelings of attraction for your therapist are real. You feel attracted to him. And there is usually some element of transference in all our relationships. Our early relationships with our caregivers formed our relationship templates and we apply them to any relationship we are in.

What's different about therapy is that the feelings cannot be acted on as you could outside of a therapeutic relationship but CAN be discussed in a way that might not be possible elsewhere so you can learn about yourself through those feelings.

I think I am attracted to my T in a here and now sense, but I also know that the unrequited nature of the relationship evokes old griefs and that the intensity of my feelings for him seem to be very driven by my past.

The truth is, though, that we do not know the real person of our therapist because they are always focused on our needs and attending to us which isn't possible 24/7. So we fall in love with this "idealized" perfect person who doesn't really exist. I'm guessing my T would look different if I had to pick up his dirty socks and fight about bills with him. So I think in therapy, it's best to take your feelings with a grain of salt, but in no way do I want to invalidate the way you're feeling. It's real.

AG

Thanks. My T is a woman. Sometimes I feel so very scared. Panic, Alone. LOST and I don't know where to go, to turn. Very scary. Overwhelming feelings that I can't do this therapy thing and heal. I don't know what to do at these times to handle the anxiety.

I'm very sorry, you had mentioned your T was a woman and I said him instead of her. My own bias is showing.

It can feel very overwhelming when these feelings are coming up. Part of the reason for that may be because it's evoking memories of a time when you were overwhelmed, panicked and alone. You don't have to deal with this alone anymore though. I would urge you to share this if you can with your T. I don't want to act like telling her will make it disappear; these feelings can take a while to work through, but it does provide some relief right away. And eventually the intensity and anxiety do get under control.

It's also ok to talk about here as much as you need to. People here really get what you're going through. I know healing feels impossible, but the truth is that you can heal. The way through is difficult but not impossible.

Thanks AG. I did put in my journal that I was researching transference/counterT and EroticT. Let her read my journal. She asked me if I was feeling this towards her and I said yes. We talked a little but got off topic. I have written what I want to share about my feelings for her at our Friday session.

This just drives me crazy though. All The feelings are so intense that I feel like I can't take it. The "adult" side of me, although a little confused, has it together and going from one extreme to the other drains me.

Thanks so much for your feedback. I never reached out before 6 months ago and I'm still learning and realizing just how much I need other (and good) people. I try as much as I can to be there now for others I've met and look forward to when I can support and give a lot more.

AG, You have great insight and written expression and I have learned valuable info from what you've shared and have found some comfort. I don't feel so quite alone. I wish you and all others struggling with these issues good human beings to love and support you, the endurance to see it through and peace at the end of the journey. I care. Peace to you.

Thanks,
KM

I wish I was having pleasant feelings toward my therapist. Normally I walk out of there having a very strong dislike or hating him, as I told him last week. I believe that this is my transference.

I envy those who love their therapist...maybe I will get to that point eventually. I read a lot about erotic transference, etc. but I would really like to find more information to read about when feeling a continual strong dislike towards the therapist in the context of transference.

I think when one loves their therapist and can tell them, that is awesome! And it takes courage.

Kudos to those who have done it!

hey TAS, i hear you. i'm not sure i can say i've ever "hated" my T, and if i did it didn't last all that long. i have for the longest time not been able to trust. i've been seeing him for about a year and a half and i'm beginning to feel like he's there for me, he's not the enemy like i made him out to be in my mind. we have some stuff to work through regarding all that, but we're getting there. i am growing rather fond of him. i don't have erotic transference and think i would just about die if i did. and i'm not sure that even if i were in love with him that i'd be able to verbalize it ... seems way too vulnerable and even on the cusp of weird (not meaning to dis anybody that's at that level with their T ... it says more about me than anybody else)
i think you're doing just fine, TAS. i do agree, though that there just isn't much out there on negative transference. take care.

Hi TAS. I wish I can hate my T like you. It hurts a lot to love someone who will never love you back the way you do. I am 18 and my T is just my teacher. I have never been in love before. (in my country the boys and girls relationship is quite conservative) my teacher doesn’t know transference. He is just helping me out with my depression as a friend. So there is no way I can tell him I love him. It will just scare him away and the last thing I can afford is to lose him. I want to stay with him forever and the only way to do is to be his friend. The way I stopped talking to him last year is probably confusing him already. And last week, in an overwhelming desire to get close to him, I did something extremely stupid: I wrote a letter to him, talking how grateful I am for him for saving my life, and a tone of other bullshit like “you are the most important person in my life” ,”I can die for you”. I don’t know why I have written things like that. he hasn’t reply and I don’t have a chance to meet him since the stupid letter. He is a wise man. I am sure that now he knows everything and now I have lost him forever. I wish my letter hasn’t caused him much trouble. I don’t know. I can’t bring myself to think about it. Now I just hope my transference will end soon. That soon I will find a proper boyfriend who is my classmate and not my teacher nor therapist. The “T”s are driving me mad. What can I do?

Hi Again AG,

it's me again, kmatel. I shared my feelings with my T per your advise. In fact I shared to the point that I let her read my posts here on psych cafe. She was very glad I did and she reinforced a lot that I read here in psych cafe.

This was an important step I needed to take in order to not only developing trust with my T but also to begin to deal with the confused mixed-up feelings regarding attachment, love, anger, need, sex, etc. resulting from childhood.

This was a big and difficult step but once I made up my mind to take it I was not so afraid. I think I'm also learning to accept myself more and not care so much about what other people think.

Plus, I don't want to take forever to get to the point where I feel healed. I know it's a process and I don't expect to be all better overnight. But the more I can do/share with my T and the more I allow her to help me, the faster I can reach my goal.

If I can heal, learn and evolve and hopefully find someone to share my life with, and feel even half of what I feel for my T, it would be worth all the pain, fear and embarrassment 100 times over.

My T also shared a little with me which was very important to me. I'm not sure if I would have shared all that I did with her had she not responded to my questions openly and honestly.

I have learned a lot from you and other individuals on this site. It's such an excellent resource that gives good, sound advise and great support. The help I received here has provided me with great info and has enabled me to take steps necessary for growth and self discovery. Thanks for your help.

km

Hi,

welcome everybody, i'm new to the forum, but i wanted to start directly in here (transference), as it is so much exactly this what made me struggle in my relation to my therapist.

we knew each other from childhood on, nowadays she and me are 30years old, she got a master in neuroscience and a diploma of psychology.

i had some depression during a struggling time, last year (needed some month to find an new job, broke up my privat relation to my partner, had problems inbetween my family),

she(my therapist) was there during these hard days, we've had mostly online sessions (skype, facebook, icq, ..), and she did so much help me through this period of dark shadowy days.

i'm aware of the fact, that it is crucial for a succesful therapy to establish a strong relation between the T and me ("Research on counseling theory has shown that the connection to one's therapist is the most significant factor accounting for therapeutic change.").

but still, she could have told me anything about it, no?

and as we're friends for ages now, she should have tried to explain me on your own, (what she never did, i was told about transference from another therapist (our personal coach in my company), no?

all she said to me was, "at the end of it all, we still be best friends" . ..

as a professional T she has to be totally aware of the phenomena of transference and its counter effect, right ?

well, if anyone feels like me, out there
and if anyone fells able to say anything about it .. Would love to have your thoughts to it.

(((KM)))

Thank you so much for letting me know what happened. You should be so very proud of yourself, it is SO scary to make yourself that vulnerable with someone, especially someone as important to your as your T is to you. I am delighted that she reacted so well and was so open to talking about how you felt and normalizing it for you. Being heard and understood by an attuned other is the key to healing.

I agree with you that the more you can bring yourself to open up and be honest with your T, the faster the healing occurs, but I am also acutely aware that people need to do this at their own pace, and pay attention to there own sense of safety. I know it is very difficult to be patient with the process (quite frankly, I stink at it! ) but it takes as long as it takes.

I want to assure you that the healing I have done with my T and learning to allow more intimacy and trust in relationships has spilled over into my life outside of therapy and no where moreso than with my husband. We celebrated our 26th anniversary this year and have never been closer. I find that I am much more open with him and that in turn, he really helps me to regulate my feelings and the reverse is also true for him. You'll be shocked to see the changes in yourself.

Thank you for the kind words about how much the forum has helped, it's an encouragement to everyone who posts here and it was lovely of you to take the time to say so.

But I want to give the lion's share of credit to you, as you were the one that had to walk in that room and face your fear. Well done!

AG

Hi firehead,
Welcome to the forums! I'm glad you posted and thanks for sharing some of your background.

As far as your T not warning you about transference, most Ts are quiet about it for two reasons. The first is that it doesn't happen with every patient. And a really intense level of transference such as the kind most of us here deal with is fairly rare so a T can go a long time without seeing it. So if they say something and it doesn't happen, a person can feel like they're doing therapy wrong.

The second reason is that how we react to the boundaries and how we open up about our feelings is important information for both our therapist and ourselves. We learn about our unconscious beliefs and motivations by being able to observe, along with our Ts help, how we behave in the relationship so in some sense talking about it beforehand may interfere or taint your own responses.

I understand the sense of betrayal, and I don't know if this is true for you, but for myself, when I dug into those feelings, it was really an irrational anger that my T was not fixing me and making it better. They can help us to change, but we have to actually do the changing, which is really frustrating most of the time.

And forgive me, but I need to ask. Did you have no other resources in terms of Ts to turn to, such as being in a small community and not having options? A therapist isn't our friend, nor should they be, those boundaries should remain clear. If I understand correctly, you're describing a relationship which was a long term friendship, then you started seeing her for therapy and she has indicated when therapy is over you'll return to the friendship? There is a power imbalance in therapy because the client opens up and becomes so vulnerable that is bad for friendships and there is a give and take and sharing of needs in friendship that is bad for therapy. I wonder why it was that your T was willing to take you on as a patient since you were a friend?

AG

AG,

Thank you for your support and feedback AG. Now I just have to learn how to manage/regulate my emotions/feelings for her.

But for me, I have this problem with many things not just people and attachment issues. ex: a bad job/boss issues, trigger of old anger issues, feelings about self.

I tend to get "stuck" on the active intense feeling or subject. I play it over like watching the same movie over and over in a row! The big problem it that it is interfering more and more with being able to focus on the task at hand, such a work.

I don't know how to start changing this thought process. I think I've been doing it my whole life as it was my way of escape. I would fantasize a happy relationship or play out telling someone off who deserved it. Stuff stayed in my head where it was safe.

I think a lot of people in our society get "stuck". It's great if you are solving an equation, researching a cure for a disease or any such thing that requires that kind of intensity and focus. But if it's on a fixation that you don't communicate, or something that you cannot have-at least not in the here and now-then it can become a painful and lonely existance.

This site has been a god send for me. It's a great way to get some of this stuff out of my system and receive great feedback and support from fellow survivors. It really helps bring me back down to earth. I really want to learn to manage intense feelings and stresses in my life via therapy and other avenues I believe are powerful tools such as meditation, etc. because these things don't go away, they just change.

I don't know if you realize just how many of us you have helped with your sharing, quick responses, support and sound advise. Thank you so much! Be well.

Kudos to you and all the others helping each other to survive, learn and grow.

km

Just commenting on my own situation here briefly I guess just for purposes for myself and others if it helps. I knew 4 or 5 months back that my therapy is really about transference. In my case it has been about "re-living" quite painfully a significant relationship in my life which started out with me being so depressed and so sick back then and even recently feeling exactly the same...facing abandonment fears/attachment issues/dependency that just would not stop. Lately though just really facing it talking with my T and just how the significant relationship eventually I was able to get better I am finally just beginning to get better again...I read somewhere how transference can be used that way also which made the "lightbulb" go off in my head. Tempted again to stop therapy thinking I'm "all better" but decided that is not the best idea but keep on with the bi-weekly for now. Realizing a lot lately. Maybe the idea may help someone in possibly similar circumstances...I hope so!

Hello All,
I have been reading so many responses about transference. These are truly helping me with my own issues dealing with transference. I thought maybe I was crazy, but knowing there are so many others going through the exact same thing I am has been a blessing.

Hi Lynne,

You are NOT crazy. I thought I was too until I started self-educating and coming to Psych Cafe. This has really helped me too! Other posts in other topics have also helped me so much. I thought is was just me but there are a lot of us abused souls out there.

The hard part for me regarding transference is that I believe my adult self is in love with my T where my child self is attached in a nuturing way. I have confused feelings with attachment, love and sex and am hoping to clarify these confusions with my T.

Hang in there!!

km

Thanks km.
One of my hardest part has been opening up to my T. I told him I have feelings for him, but we have never really gotten into any details. We both are working on the transference and my childhood problems, but there are times that I wish I could tell him exactly how I feel about him. It doesn't help that he loves to talk and talk to where I can barely get a word in.

I was also feeling so guilty for the longest time. You see I am happily married and could not figure out why I was having these feelings toward my T too. Thanks to this site I can see that transference is a common thing, and I have no reason to feel guilty.

I am understanding more and more that transference is being caused from what I lacked in childhood. That is someone who could care about me, listen to me, just overall be there for me. My T has done this for me. I just hope that my T gives me more opportunity to open up to him. I have a big fear that he is going to drop me as a patient because of my feelings being so strong. That could be a reason too as to why I haven't opened up to him all the way. He has asked me if I wanted another T because of my feelings. I think that would do more harm at this point. We have just begun to scratch the surface behind the transference. If I lost him as a T, I don't know if I would ever be able to solve the real reason behind the transference. I just hope it all works out.

Hi Lynne,

I'm experiencing a similar issue with my T. (Look for my other posts). I had wanted to quit because I told my T that therapy was not a good platform for my healing, I needed people who could relate, etc. I got honest with myself and admitted that a big reason I wanted to quit was because of the feelings of attraction and love I developed for my T.

I was sexually abused as a child and have confusions about attachment, love and sex for as long as I remember. This is one of the big issues on my list to address when I started therapy. So what do I want to do when the issue arises with my T? I want to quit.

I knew deep down that I picked a good T who could really help me and that if I quit now, I may never resolve old issues. I trust my T and my Ts knowledge, experience and approach. I had to ask myself if I really wanted to lose that. I didn't! I posted on this site and got some great advice. The general concensus was that the thing you want to face the least is the thing you need to face the most and that talking about and working through these feelings with your T is part of the process of learning, growing and evolving. I decided to discuss all my feelings for T at the time with my T. It went very well and we continue to talk thru it. In fact I even shared my fantasy of when I want finished with therapy we would get together and develop a relationship. I've come a long way being able to open up as much as I have.

As far as getting a new T because of the feelings you developed for him...I think it would be good to discuss all the feelings you have for him and that you want him to help you through this. Ask him if he can do this. Not all Ts are trained or comfortable doing this but if he's working on transference issues with you it seems he should be able to help you thru this.

My T believes in relational therapy and using the therapy to help you work through these issues in a safe and secure environment. I still have these feelings for my T but it's in the open and much easier to discuss and makes it more manageable for me to handle the feelings. Also, I feel impowered because I was able to bring it up and talk about it. I feel stronger, more self accepting and know that I am moving in the right direction.

Even now, when I need to talk about something uncomfortable and/or painful and I hesitate, I repeat to myself "Feel the fear and do it anyway". And then I do. This has worked for me. I make myself because I want, I need, to move on and get my head and life in a better place. I have my education and a good job but am terribly unhappy and I must deal with these childhood issues.

I sorry to ramble like this but I'm trying to encourage you to move forward and give yourself a chance. You can do this. I Never thought I could but I did and if i can, so can you.

Hang in there and feel free to pm me anytime.

km

Edited to remove identifying information.

km,
We definitely have a lot in common. One thing you mention that my T never has brought up is the sexual abuse as a child. I am wondering how that plays into the transference. Does your T ever talk about that? I too was sexually abused as a child. I am pretty sure it plays a part of my problems that I have had with men all my life, but I am not sure if it plays into the transference.

I know that my T is good because of all the progress I have made with my depression, so I don't want to lose him just because I have this crush on him. I know that I need to open up to him more. I am just not sure how to do it. Whenever I open my mouth, nothing comes out about my feelings for him. I have thought about writing it out and then just reading it to him that way I don't have to worry about what I am going to say at the moment.

I know that I need to be tough and just spill my guts to my T. I shouldn't be afraid of him. He seems like a good T so I don't think he would just abandon me when I need him the most.

I even told my husband about my crush. I was really surprised that he understood completely. I was afraid to tell him in that I would hurt his feelings, but he understood that these things happen in therapy. I feel a little bit more confident knowing that he is there for me too.

Thanks so much for your advice and I hope we can continue to talk about our transference in order to heal.

Lynne

Hi Lynne,

Nice to hear back from you. Yes, my T and I have talked about the sexual abuse. I told her the specifics of the abuse and by whom at my first session. At least what I remember about the abuse. I also told her about my confusions about attachment, love, sex and sexual identity. How a part of me thinks all men are pigs. In fact, I interviewed a few Ts and shared these feelings with them all. I really wanted to get the issues out on the table so I could move forward. It has taken me a long time to get to this point!

The sexual abuse does tie in with transference and Erotic Transference. In fact, it ties in with the depression, how you relate, how you react to certain things, etc.. It goes on and on.

One thing that has helped me was to keep a journal. It has helped me to really understand my feelings and reactions that relate a lot back to the abuse, being called dumb/stupid most of my childhood (funny because I’m a CPA now) and a general lack of nurturing. I also have a poor self-image and feelings of worthlessness.

I let my T read my journal each session. (most of it anyway, I don't think she has read my "Bucket List"). This has helped because it has opened the door to discussions about my feelings for her but also a lot of feelings and behaviors resulting from the abuse. It has also led me to be able to discuss my feelings/emotions with her directly.

I keep a journal using software, Journal 5. It's very user friendly and I found it to be one of the better journaling software out there. I also have a small spiral rung notebook. I usually use this to record post session comments and questions to discuss next session. It also comes in handy when I don’t want or can’t find it with-in myself to write electronic format. Sometimes I just want pencil and paper. I also let her read my postings on Psych Café.

Think about trying some of things to help you with your feelings and when you're ready, share with your T.

I am so impressed that you shared these feelings with your husband. That took a lot of courage. KUDOS to you. I think it is so great that he understands. It helps to have support outside of therapy.
I would like to continue to talk and share issues about our transference, depression and other issues that arise.

Take Good Care and Hang in There!!

km

Km,
My T has never let me talk about my sexual abuse. It is almost like he thinks it doesn't play into my depression or anything else. Maybe he doesn't like to hear about things like that. I wish that he would because I feel it plays a role in my current state of mind. Do you know much about erotic transference? I have done a little bit of reading on the subject, and it sound like some of what I have. This transference to my T is not my first crush on someone. I think that my crushes are tied to my sexual abuse. It could be representative of my need to please people too.

I too keep a journal. I absolutely need it to write down my thoughts and feelings or I probably would explode. I never thought about letting my T read any of it though. Maybe I really should consider it. However, I don't think he would have the time to do it. He wants our sessions to be all about talking (or should I say about him talking). He tends to talk a lot more than listen. Maybe he will let me at least read some of it to him. I might be able to get out what I want to say without being shy about it.

Thanks so much for listening to me and offering me advice. I feel like I am learning so much from your own personal experiences.

Lynne

[My T has never let me talk about my sexual abuse. It is almost like he thinks it doesn't play into my depression or anything else. Maybe he doesn't like to hear about things like that. I wish that he would because I feel it plays a role in my current state of mind.]

I've been thinking about you and your last post. I am concerned for you. I don't want you to get "stuck" like I did. I had a previous T who bailed out on me just when I though we were making a breakthrough. She couldn't handle the issues. She referred me to someone else who was a good ol boy and even though a nice guy, we talked more about other things than issues. However he did help somewhat with boss issues and stresses I was having at work. I stopped seeing him because I didn't think it was going anywhere. I quit therapy for a couple years.

I started started again when after I broke my Jan 31, I started having severe depression while at home rehabbing. An aquaintence I met when at the rehab facility I was at for 2 weeks encouraged me to start therapy again. This time though, I did my homework. I researched and interviewed Ts in my area. I saw one who did not take my insurance but I liked her profile and saw her about therapy plus about a women's group she held. She was honest and said she didn't do the intensive therapy anymore but referred me to 3 people who did. I made an appointment with her first choice of the 3. She did not have any openings after work hours but I thought I can go during work hours. I met with T and got a really good feeling and started with her. She is great and I found someone who can actually help me. She worked 4 years at a non-profit org. dealing specifically with adults who were sexually abused as kids.

I'm really concerned that your current T has taken you as far as he can. If he thinks that the abuse doesn't play into depression or anything else then he cannot help you with what you need. It doesn't sound like he is qualified, trained, experienced or wants to help you with your sexual abuse issues. If he never lets you talk about it then he's NOT listening to what you need.

Adult survivors often suffer from a variety of symptoms that include:
•Depression
•Drug and alcohol abuse
•Panic attacks
•Self-injury
•Trust and intimacy issues
•Flashbacks

Check out website http://www.paar.net/35/adult-s...ildhood-sexual-abuse

[Maybe I really should consider it. However, I don't think he would have the time to do it. He wants our sessions to be all about talking (or should I say about him talking). He tends to talk a lot more than listen.]

Seems that he needs to do Much Less talking and a lot more listening and a good T will be interested in what you want to share that could help with you and your T with your therapy including your journal, pictures or other. I have shared both with my T and it has proven invaluable in her getting to know me better, how I think when I'm ok, how I think when I really depressed, etc. She is warm, kind and friendly which has made it easy to talk with her. She is a great listener.

I have been seeing my T since April. I have made more progress than in my entire life. Part of this is because I have a great T but part is also because when I started the journey to heal I promised myself and T that I would be open and share everything to help with the process. My T listened to everything I shared and only reinforced that what I was feeling was not crazy and a lot of abuse survivors experience the same or similar feelings. I'm determined to do this and move on to a happy fulfilling life. The issues aren't going to go away. They my reside but they will come back until we deal with them.

I have read about transference and erotic transference. The "ET" can occur whether your T is same or opposite sex and whether you are gay or straight. It's about getting the attention you need from one person and can involve confusion about love vs sex etc. I am not an expert and want to do more reading.

Lynne, please consider looking for a new T. At least look some up online focusing on one'e who focus on sexual abuse. I know you are attached to your T and are experiencing transference and maybe ET towards your T but he may not be what you need. If you make any appts with new Ts have a list of questions that are important to you, what you expect and need from a T and if they can provide that. This will also be good practice taking your power back. You deserve it and owe it to yourself.

I also joind a depression meetup group that is excellent. Look in your area, www.meetup.com. I am co-sponsor for a meetup group for Adult survivors of child sexual abuse. This is still in it's infancy though. I have also been attending Survivors of Incest Anonymous. I did not experience incest from a direct family member but this org is about any adult sexually abused as an adult. Look online for resources in your area for additional support. This has really helped me. I've learned to share my experiences with other people in a safe and non-judgemental environment. It feels good and I feel good and am growing and evolving even though I know I still have a ways to go to the end of this particular journey.

Hang in and Take Good Care of Yourself!
Karen

Lynne,

Thinking about you and hope you are hanging in there.

km

Karen,
I sometimes think about getting a new therapist for many reasons. One is the fact that he doesn't let me talk much. I have to interrupt him in order to talk. Another reason is that if I don't see him then my feelings will die down. I notice when the time between our sessions is longer the less I think about him.

Right now he has me focus on the issues that I had with my father growing up. This is one of the causes of transference. It has been tough dealing with feelings that are not pleasant. I have been pretty depressed because of it too.

I need to really ask my T why he doesn't want to talk about my sexual abuse. Maybe he has a logical reason. Like one thing at a time. I really want to work through this transference thing anyway.

I will check out meetup for my area and see what I can find. I would like to be able to be in a group that deals with depression. The more help I get the better I do.

Lynne

Good Luck Lynne.

Karen

Well, I had another session with my T. I feel like my feelings toward him are dying down just a bit. Not sure if it cause of the work we are doing or if it is just time making it easier. I still think about him but not as much as I used to. My anxiety for him has gone way down. As far as the sexual abuse he still doesn't seem to want to talk about it. Some of it being my fault for not bringing it up when we are in session, but it is not like I haven't brought it up in the past. In a way, I am slightly afraid to bring it up because of all the bad memories it creates. It happened so long ago that I'd rather just forget about it.

This site has helped so much. Just being able to let my feelings go and not be judged. Also, reading how others have dealt with their T seems to help too.

Thanks for listening.

Lynne

Hi Cloudy! Welcome! First of all I would encourage you to create your own thread if you want more support, as more people are likely to read and respond that way.

I understand just how strong transference feelings can be and how they can make you feel like you're completely falling apart. I've totally been there. It does happen sometimes that dynamics between particular therapist-client pairs can be such that the therapy is too hard to tolerate and it might be better to see a different T. However, before you leave, I would encourage you to try to have a real discussion, in session, about your feelings and what the two of you might be able to do to make things easier for you. Sometimes just talking in session about the feelings can make them lessen somewhat. I know that's an extremely hard conversation to have, but every time I've done it personally, I've found it to be very much worth it.

One more thing here. Sometimes in therapy, the transference can be the worst right before you have a major breakthrough or right before it starts to get better. It can mean you finally feel able to face things that you have been avoiding for a long time. This is why I think you shouldn't just leave right away.

I hope you'll keep posting and let us know what happens.

Hi everyone,

What a relief finding this forum, and to read stories of people going through similar situations. I am trying to work through transference as we speak... and boy, it hasn't been an easy ride.

The situation has become a bit more complex lately, so, I could use a little help to make a decision on how to navigate this situation.
I'll try to describe as short as possible, but please, bear with me...

Things started about 1,5 years ago, when I started to attend couples therapy with my partner. I've a track record of developing crushes on my teachers when I was in high school. (something I didn't understand at that time)
So, when the same thing happened in therapy, I tried to deal with the confusion and the feeling by googling and reading about it....
It didn't take long to dig up information about transference and to start to be able to frame these feelings from an intellectual point of view. (Which doesn't mean there were no questions left - there were plenty!)

The common advice I found in almost all of the articles, was not to run from the feelings, how this was a unique opportunity to work through the issues that got stuck.. and the way to do it was to talk about these feeling with my therapist. So, I tried to find all the courage in the world and to address the issue.. Which didn't work out, somehow or another. I'm sure she knows about my feelings (she has been giving me signs in between the lines she knows), but talking about it feels a no-go. Every attempt I make feels like being blocked by her. I guess she doesn't think it is appropriate since these are couples sessions attended by the both of us? (But then again, that's only a guess.) Or maybe she thinks I would try to act on these feelings? (which I would never do) Or maybe she just doesn't know how to deal with this?

So, I've tried to navigate the feelings myself.. Saying it wasn't easy, would be an understatement...
At times it felt so overwhelming I started to loose all balance until the point it felt like I would loose my mind. I felt like I was being confronted with all those feelings while not being strong enough to carry them. Also it felt not being able to express them and to hear they are ok, is holding me back in living them through.

So I asked her for a referral to a personal counselor, which I have been seeing once or twice a month for some months now and in which I have started to be able to (slowly) talk about these feelings. Not easy. And always from a very rational, left-brain perspective.. It's not like I can take these feelings and just transfer from one counseling situation to another.

Since this situation took up so much of my energy and brought me so off-balance, I decided to put our couples counseling on hold - temporarily.
But since the situation with my partner hadn't been properly resolved yet, this started giving problems again, so we recontacted the couples counselor a couple of months later. We then discovered she was going to end her practice as a counselor in the near future, but we agreed we would try to squeeze in all the necessary sessions before her ending her practice. She agreed she wouldn't leave us without working it through till the end... and that we would find a solution if we would need more sessions after her lease had ended.

Not such a good idea... there was this very intense session (not by what was being said, but by the connection I made with her during that session - don't ask me how it happens, but we just connect so powerfully) which left me crying a whole week long, and then there was a session in which I got no time to talk at all (true I took up all the talking time in the previous one and left none for my partner) in which was decided my partner would have some sessions on her own.. damn, I am very aware about this being transference, but this didn't change one thing about me feeling devastated.. and when I say "devastated", I mean "devastated"...

Don't get me wrong. She has been wonderful at the same time.. she has almost always stayed emotionally present, even when I was reacting pretty over the top. (when you get in touch with feelings that have been closed off for so long, they tend to be uncontrollable and energy is going in every direction). And when she realized the private sessions with my partner were difficult for me, she wrote a very sweet mail to comfort me until she would be back from holidays.

So then there was her one month holiday, and ours... and her office lease that ended.
So here we are right now... and we are supposed to schedule an appointment for a next session and I don't know what to do.

Most of all I want to continue the sessions till I have worked through the transference completely. But on the other hand, I am not sure I will ever be able to do this without addressing it and talking about it in our/my sessions with our relationship therapist. I understand she is a relationship counselor, and these sessions aren't meant to be about personal issues - so maybe I am trying to do something out of scope here? But then again, talking about my love feelings being almost always transference related, is a relationship topic, no? So, maybe I should try to raise the issue again - maybe in a mail or so? (although it doesn't feel good to feel *pushy*, I want to try to make this work as best as I can)

And if we are going back for a few of sessions with my partner and then our sessions would end abruptly without me having worked through the transference, doesn't feel like a corrective emotional experience, rather the opposite.

Also, I am a little afraid of the effects of having the session in another space than her old office...
One of the options would be do have them here at our home - in our office. But at the same time, I am afraid what this would do with the clear boundaries between therapy and real life.

At times the whole situation tends to make me angry and lost, because I don't need her to know that I am having these feeling... I need her to help me navigate them. At this time it feels like history repeating itself - having no one to support me with the difficult stuff while growing up... (which is not true at the same time, because where she's able to, she's always trying to understand me the best she can and trying to get my needs met)

So, all advice on how to navigate this would be more than appreciated

And yes, I realize I've been giving a very rational account of what's happening, but don't get me wrong, it's a scary emotional journey...
Just trying to protect myself I guess.
C

(((((C)))))

quote:

At this time it feels like history repeating itself - having no one to support me with the difficult stuff while growing up..

I often felt the same way. And my T wasn't comfortable with the feelings either. Same as you, I read on the internet that the thing to do is to talk to your therapist about the feelings. Same as you, I kept trying to bring them up and he was deflecting them. And I wasn't functioning very well.

We had a crisis in our relationship that made him realize that he was uncomfortable with the love feelings and he was deflecting them. He's been much more accepting of my feelings and it has helped A LOT. I'm sure I could have gone to another T and hashed it all out but I think it would have taken me longer to do resolve things and there would always be that nagging sense of having failed at yet another relationship.

There are two books that I would recommend. One is In Session by Deborah Lott which deals exclusively with this issue from the client's perspective and how T's screw it up. The other is Attachment in Psychotherapy by David Wallin. What I like about his book, and what applies here, is that he says that the best therapy is done when all feelings are allowed in the room. He calls it inclusiveness.

This counselor does sound nice. Maybe you could bring it to her attention that you would really like to work it through with her but feel as though she is resisting and see what she says.

The thing for me is, a lot of the feelings are real time, in the present and for my T. He has helped me more than any person has in my entire life. I have so much more work to do but I no longer feel tortured inside.

Once he let the feelings in the room, I've been able to process it. Until he did, they were just bouncing around inside of me with no where to go. It has taken time and it's not without pain and letting go. But the flip side is that I know when I will see him. I also know he will be nice. It's always like a honeymoon because we don't live together or share a life. LOL!

Good luck. I hope you can talk to her. I do think it would be best if you can work it through with her but she might be uncomfortable with her own stuff.

Hello C and welcome,

I agree w/ Liese. I encourage you to get your feelings out on the table. I will be honest with you C, I put my feelings out there and my T COULD NOT handle it. Long story short, I had to find a new T and I worked through the transference with my new T. Things have gotten much better but it took a year of constant work to get through it.

If you want to feel better about this, I suggest taking the first step, which is talking honestly about your feelings toward your T. Don't worry about what comes next. Just tell your T that you would like to speak for a bit and ask her to just listen. Take as long as you need to get it all out. Write it down and read it back if you have to. I know this sounds difficult and embarrassing but that is what therapy is for. It is to help you with difficult problems in a safe environment. And once you have said what you have to say, you will probably feel better. And your T will probably react like a complete professional. And what happens after that, you will deal with when it is presented. In other words, you can't predict how your T will react. Not only that, by telling this to your T, you haven't done anything wrong! Your are being honest about some very deep and very real feelings that are causing you pain. And isn't that what a T is supposed to help with?

I can only speak from my own experiences. I told my T and I felt better. She handled it just fine but then a week later, she requested that I see someone else. I have managed to work through my transference. I still I have feelings for my former T. Just like anyone who cares deeply about somebody and then that person, for what ever reason, leaves your life. But I feel SO SO SO much better than when I had it all bottled up and confused with what to do with all these strong feelings directed towards my T. And when I stumble, and I do from time to time causing me to long for my former T, I go to my T and we talk about it.

I hope this helps C! Keep writing and reading this site. It was a tremendous help for me and many others.

quote:

Originally posted by Liese:
The other is Attachment in Psychotherapy by David Wallin. What I like about his book, and what applies here, is that he says that the best therapy is done when all feelings are allowed in the room. He calls it inclusiveness.

This counselor does sound nice. Maybe you could bring it to her attention that you would really like to work it through with her but feel as though she is resisting and see what she says.

The thing for me is, a lot of the feelings are real time, in the present and for my T. He has helped me more than any person has in my entire life. I have so much more work to do but I no longer feel tortured inside.

Once he let the feelings in the room, I've been able to process it. Until he did, they were just bouncing around inside of me with no where to go.

Hi Liese,

Tnx for your advice, helps a lot in grounding my feelings. Cause sometimes I start to think it's just me making things bigger than they are and asking impossible things from my counselor.

I've read 'In Session' a couple of months ago which helped reassuring me too. The other book you're referring to looks super interesting, I'll sure check it out.

What you say about not being able to process the feelings until they were allowed in the room, feels so familiar! It feels like she has brought me in touch with all these feelings, and is telling me I should get in touch with my feelings more - but at the same time I get the message these feelings are not allowed in the room... which kinda blocks everything inside.. indeed bouncing inside of me.

I'm seeing my personal counselor this afternoon.. I think I'll try to talk this through with her too. And then try to bring it up with our relationship counselor. I've never felt so in contact with what I should be going through as with her.. all my other counselors didn't get beyond the intellectual screen I put up. Except her. So, it feels like such a precious possibility for growth, I really don't want to give this up easily...

But oh boy, pretty scary too.
Tnx for heads up!
C