Does anyone else have a hard time with the fact that your session ends and you don't feel like leaving. I seem to always want to just continue with the transference stuff because it seems like I start to dig deeper as the session goes on. Just when I'm ready to go deeper, it's over.
Hi Diane,
Yes, I do have a hard time leaving when session is over. I’ve told my T that is the hardest part for the next 24-48 hours (as River and others also posted in “24 Hours to go”).
And it is true that by the time you get the wheels turning in your discussion its time to stop. I had 2 hour sessions for about 6 months until I was able to work through some tougher issues I was dealing with at the time. While it was a bit if a financial burden it did help a lot.
JM
Yes, I do have a hard time leaving when session is over. I’ve told my T that is the hardest part for the next 24-48 hours (as River and others also posted in “24 Hours to go”).
And it is true that by the time you get the wheels turning in your discussion its time to stop. I had 2 hour sessions for about 6 months until I was able to work through some tougher issues I was dealing with at the time. While it was a bit if a financial burden it did help a lot.
JM
Hi Diane,
I once asked my T if I could live under his desk. But we both agreed it might disturb his other clients.
It's always a little tough to leave but I went through a period where it wsa wrenching whenever I left his office. I can remember shaking his hand at the end of a session (we always shake hands at the end) and I teared up and told him that I really didn't want to leave. He very gently told me that this was one of the hard boundaries but to remember that even though I was leaving that didn't mean he still wasn't there. It can sometimes help to remember that the connection doesn't cease when we're not with them.
AG
I once asked my T if I could live under his desk. But we both agreed it might disturb his other clients.
It's always a little tough to leave but I went through a period where it wsa wrenching whenever I left his office. I can remember shaking his hand at the end of a session (we always shake hands at the end) and I teared up and told him that I really didn't want to leave. He very gently told me that this was one of the hard boundaries but to remember that even though I was leaving that didn't mean he still wasn't there. It can sometimes help to remember that the connection doesn't cease when we're not with them.
AG
Hey Guys,
I am new to the therapy world, but I have been hit my the "Transference Bug" right off the bat! I couldn't stand my therapist the first 2 or 3 times I seen him and thought he was the person in the room that needed help. I made fun of him to my friends...then I really started looking at his concerned face and feeling his presence in the room...and bam!!!..It hit me like a rock...This man is HOT!!!...I managed to get to see him every week until the end of the year, and I get so nervous, I love being there and feel secure, but I can't tell him how I feel I am afraid he would tell me to go somewhere else...and I would die!!...Please help me...can a Therapist turn you away for transference...I have been reading your blogs for several weeks now trying to get my nerve up to post...I love my husband dearly, (but we are having some mid life crisis) and I do not want to pursue a romantic relationship with my T..but I crave a hug or embrace... would that help me to go on my way...or send me reeling into another world??Help me out here guys...I'm drowning in my thoughts..C.
I am new to the therapy world, but I have been hit my the "Transference Bug" right off the bat! I couldn't stand my therapist the first 2 or 3 times I seen him and thought he was the person in the room that needed help. I made fun of him to my friends...then I really started looking at his concerned face and feeling his presence in the room...and bam!!!..It hit me like a rock...This man is HOT!!!...I managed to get to see him every week until the end of the year, and I get so nervous, I love being there and feel secure, but I can't tell him how I feel I am afraid he would tell me to go somewhere else...and I would die!!...Please help me...can a Therapist turn you away for transference...I have been reading your blogs for several weeks now trying to get my nerve up to post...I love my husband dearly, (but we are having some mid life crisis) and I do not want to pursue a romantic relationship with my T..but I crave a hug or embrace... would that help me to go on my way...or send me reeling into another world??Help me out here guys...I'm drowning in my thoughts..C.
Hi Charlotte,
Welcome to the forum. I know that drowning feeling! But you’re ok.
No, a therapist is not going to turn you away because of transference. So let me try to alleviate that fear for you front and center, because that is exactly what I was afraid of when I finally confessed my feelings to my T. I was afraid that she would find me disgusting and my feelings intolerable. (We are both hetero-sexual females, so as you can imagine this threw me for a loop because of the homo-erotic transference.) But when I did tell her, and believe me it took most of the session to even get it out and I did a lot of squirming and shifting the whole time, she was very sympathetic, warm, and she reassured me that this was a normal phenomenon and that she is ok with it and absolutely would not terminate our sessions or send me away. I was sooo relieved! I am sure that your T will tell you much of the same and that transference is a good thing because it allows us to mend the past through a present relationship. Every thing you are feeling in the transference with your T is manifesting from past experiences from your primary attachment figures (parents) and needs to be worked through. It provides a looking glass so to speak and through the gentle guidance of your T you will be able to discover a new sense of self and uproot many old beliefs and patterns that inhibit your life and relationships to this day. Many of us have been and are in the same boat and Shrinklady has posted a great page on transference, you probably already read that but just in case you missed it here’s a link:
http://www.myshrink.com/counseling-theory.php?t_id=18
As you describe how you came to notice the “concerned look on his face and feeling his presence in the room,” you are describing a sense of someone who is completely there for you in that moment that strikes a limbic chord that reaches far back into your developmental years. This is a beginning of myriads of connections that a good therapist can make. This is a very intimate relationship where he is hearing you like no one else ever has, or could for that matter. This is all a good thing Charlotte. When you tell your T, and I urge you to tell him, watch his facial expressions, listen to his reply. I am sure you will find gentleness and understanding there that you deserve. I hope this helps alleviate some of your desperation. You are not alone Charlotte, as you can tell by the transference thread being the most active thread on the site. And as far as your emotions, you are exactly where you need to be and are on the threshold of many emotional, yet exciting changes in your life. It will be a roller coaster sometimes, but if you don’t allow yourself to go there you won’t get better.
And Charlotte, what is going on between you and your husband may have more to do with unresolved childhood issues on (likely both) your parts which manifest themselves in relationships throughout our lives, and quite frankly more intensely in our mid life if they hadn’t yet been dealt with properly. Another clear indication that there are things that need to be resolved personally. And as for a hug from T, I encourage you to ask him what his policy is on hugs. But be prepared that if he says no it may FEEL like a million tons of rejection, but that would be something you need to talk about and work though for its meaning is far deeper than the present feelings of rejection. If he allows a hug and where that hug could plunge you emotionally is hard to tell, but again that is what you would talk to him about and he will guide you through it, hopefully in an utmost professional manner worthy of your trust.
Again it was good to hear from you. I hope you stay in contact and ride it out with us. I wish I had this forum 2 years ago when I was struggling with it so hard.
I am going to make 2 reading recommendations for you right off the bat:
1) In Session- by Deborah Lott. This book is a wonderful tool for understanding transference and how it affects clients. It helped me to feel “normal.”
2) A General Theory of Love-Thomas Lewis, MD. This book is great in helping to understand the neurobiological connections that are happening to you and why they need to happen. There is also a “book club” type thread on this forum too.
I hope this helps.
JM
Welcome to the forum. I know that drowning feeling! But you’re ok.
No, a therapist is not going to turn you away because of transference. So let me try to alleviate that fear for you front and center, because that is exactly what I was afraid of when I finally confessed my feelings to my T. I was afraid that she would find me disgusting and my feelings intolerable. (We are both hetero-sexual females, so as you can imagine this threw me for a loop because of the homo-erotic transference.) But when I did tell her, and believe me it took most of the session to even get it out and I did a lot of squirming and shifting the whole time, she was very sympathetic, warm, and she reassured me that this was a normal phenomenon and that she is ok with it and absolutely would not terminate our sessions or send me away. I was sooo relieved! I am sure that your T will tell you much of the same and that transference is a good thing because it allows us to mend the past through a present relationship. Every thing you are feeling in the transference with your T is manifesting from past experiences from your primary attachment figures (parents) and needs to be worked through. It provides a looking glass so to speak and through the gentle guidance of your T you will be able to discover a new sense of self and uproot many old beliefs and patterns that inhibit your life and relationships to this day. Many of us have been and are in the same boat and Shrinklady has posted a great page on transference, you probably already read that but just in case you missed it here’s a link:
http://www.myshrink.com/counseling-theory.php?t_id=18
As you describe how you came to notice the “concerned look on his face and feeling his presence in the room,” you are describing a sense of someone who is completely there for you in that moment that strikes a limbic chord that reaches far back into your developmental years. This is a beginning of myriads of connections that a good therapist can make. This is a very intimate relationship where he is hearing you like no one else ever has, or could for that matter. This is all a good thing Charlotte. When you tell your T, and I urge you to tell him, watch his facial expressions, listen to his reply. I am sure you will find gentleness and understanding there that you deserve. I hope this helps alleviate some of your desperation. You are not alone Charlotte, as you can tell by the transference thread being the most active thread on the site. And as far as your emotions, you are exactly where you need to be and are on the threshold of many emotional, yet exciting changes in your life. It will be a roller coaster sometimes, but if you don’t allow yourself to go there you won’t get better.
And Charlotte, what is going on between you and your husband may have more to do with unresolved childhood issues on (likely both) your parts which manifest themselves in relationships throughout our lives, and quite frankly more intensely in our mid life if they hadn’t yet been dealt with properly. Another clear indication that there are things that need to be resolved personally. And as for a hug from T, I encourage you to ask him what his policy is on hugs. But be prepared that if he says no it may FEEL like a million tons of rejection, but that would be something you need to talk about and work though for its meaning is far deeper than the present feelings of rejection. If he allows a hug and where that hug could plunge you emotionally is hard to tell, but again that is what you would talk to him about and he will guide you through it, hopefully in an utmost professional manner worthy of your trust.
Again it was good to hear from you. I hope you stay in contact and ride it out with us. I wish I had this forum 2 years ago when I was struggling with it so hard.
I am going to make 2 reading recommendations for you right off the bat:
1) In Session- by Deborah Lott. This book is a wonderful tool for understanding transference and how it affects clients. It helped me to feel “normal.”
2) A General Theory of Love-Thomas Lewis, MD. This book is great in helping to understand the neurobiological connections that are happening to you and why they need to happen. There is also a “book club” type thread on this forum too.
I hope this helps.
JM
Well done Charlotte for finding the courage to ask on this forum.
To update you all, I went for a long walk with T and we discussed many things including transference. It hasn't been as strong compared with the time I first wrote. I entered the conversation as a friend with an idea of the things I needed to clarify and explore with her. The flow of conversation felt full of grace - relaxed and easy and mutually shared. I feel like have gained a very dear friend where there is deep levels of trust and respect between us. I feel blessed. I feel as if I have grown. I was able to say "I love you" to her without restraint or fear or being overwhelmed by the power of my own love. And she received it with joy.
We are making the transition to friends/colleagues and it feels good for me. The transference is my issue and we are both aware it will be there from time to time. I attend a therapeutic group facilitated by her and another (the third party) and I am finding the thought of attending that much easier. The trigger occurred at the last one and I am sure it will be present again - this time I can ask for that third party to hold the space for me, while T triggers me. In my opinion, there is nothing like some raw feelings to take me deeper into my being and the Beauty.
Thank you all for your support through the thick of it. I am looking forward to knowing myself in all the new ways that are now possible.
"All roads are made smooth as I gracefully surrender to the magnetic pull within my heart."
To update you all, I went for a long walk with T and we discussed many things including transference. It hasn't been as strong compared with the time I first wrote. I entered the conversation as a friend with an idea of the things I needed to clarify and explore with her. The flow of conversation felt full of grace - relaxed and easy and mutually shared. I feel like have gained a very dear friend where there is deep levels of trust and respect between us. I feel blessed. I feel as if I have grown. I was able to say "I love you" to her without restraint or fear or being overwhelmed by the power of my own love. And she received it with joy.
We are making the transition to friends/colleagues and it feels good for me. The transference is my issue and we are both aware it will be there from time to time. I attend a therapeutic group facilitated by her and another (the third party) and I am finding the thought of attending that much easier. The trigger occurred at the last one and I am sure it will be present again - this time I can ask for that third party to hold the space for me, while T triggers me. In my opinion, there is nothing like some raw feelings to take me deeper into my being and the Beauty.
Thank you all for your support through the thick of it. I am looking forward to knowing myself in all the new ways that are now possible.
"All roads are made smooth as I gracefully surrender to the magnetic pull within my heart."
Thank you so much JM,
I was desperately waiting on someone to reassure me of the feelings that I am haveing and that they are not just the fantasy of a psycho woman! I have been going over and over in my mind what to say to my T next week, but don't know if I can get it out when I see him face to face...He melts my heart with those sweet but firm eyes!!..I will try to break the ice a little first I guess..I'm still not sure he won't kick me to the curb..thanks for caring enough to give me your views...I really apreciate all you said...you have a way with words...keep up the support...and I am glad to be a part of this thread...I plan to read those books as soon as I can get out to find them...Charlotte
I was desperately waiting on someone to reassure me of the feelings that I am haveing and that they are not just the fantasy of a psycho woman! I have been going over and over in my mind what to say to my T next week, but don't know if I can get it out when I see him face to face...He melts my heart with those sweet but firm eyes!!..I will try to break the ice a little first I guess..I'm still not sure he won't kick me to the curb..thanks for caring enough to give me your views...I really apreciate all you said...you have a way with words...keep up the support...and I am glad to be a part of this thread...I plan to read those books as soon as I can get out to find them...Charlotte
Thanks Em,
It sounds like you have been down a road most traveled. I hope I can get the courage to do the same...I love my husband and want so much to feel his love again...and be able to return it in "TRUE MEANING" but until I get thru this process...I can only think of my "man of the hour". Keep me in your thoughts this week, I will let you know what happens....If it happens...Charlotte
It sounds like you have been down a road most traveled. I hope I can get the courage to do the same...I love my husband and want so much to feel his love again...and be able to return it in "TRUE MEANING" but until I get thru this process...I can only think of my "man of the hour". Keep me in your thoughts this week, I will let you know what happens....If it happens...Charlotte
Hi Charlotte!
It’s good to know that we’re not psycho even though we feel like we are sometimes.
I understand the whole preparation and anxiety and even going over and over what you will say to your T and how you will bring this agonizing subject up. Perhaps when you see him next you can simply open with “Can we talk a little about transference, because I think that’s what’s going on with me?” While he might be inclined to start asking you questions about what exactly you are feeling (which if you can answer them fine) if not tell him, “This is really hard for me can you tell me your knowledge and experience of it to help break the ice?”
I don’t know if this is how you are feeling, I tend to make things more complicated sometimes, but I know the fear that no matter how many times you hear that it is ok and that transference is completely normal and acceptable, you still stand back and wonder “Then how come it doesn’t FEEL normal? Are you sure I’m not a nut case?” Setting a completely honest and open dialogue with your T is the best thing you can do for yourself. It opens up the hollows of things long thought lost and helps them to know how to help you. If there is a physical attraction to him, allow him to know that (not in a flirtatious way-Although I know the temptation may be great) but so that he knows what you are going through and what you are experiencing. He won’t kick you out to the curb, but he will know that you are now primed for the real process and work of therapy to begin and any detail you reveal helps him to apply his knowledge and experience in how to best help you.
Meanwhile I am glad that your desperation has eased up to some degree. It’s an occasional facet of therapy that we all love to hate.
FYI: Last I knew both of the books are available on Amazon.com.
Keep us posted and enjoy your journey!
JM
It’s good to know that we’re not psycho even though we feel like we are sometimes.
I understand the whole preparation and anxiety and even going over and over what you will say to your T and how you will bring this agonizing subject up. Perhaps when you see him next you can simply open with “Can we talk a little about transference, because I think that’s what’s going on with me?” While he might be inclined to start asking you questions about what exactly you are feeling (which if you can answer them fine) if not tell him, “This is really hard for me can you tell me your knowledge and experience of it to help break the ice?” I don’t know if this is how you are feeling, I tend to make things more complicated sometimes, but I know the fear that no matter how many times you hear that it is ok and that transference is completely normal and acceptable, you still stand back and wonder “Then how come it doesn’t FEEL normal? Are you sure I’m not a nut case?” Setting a completely honest and open dialogue with your T is the best thing you can do for yourself. It opens up the hollows of things long thought lost and helps them to know how to help you. If there is a physical attraction to him, allow him to know that (not in a flirtatious way-Although I know the temptation may be great)
but so that he knows what you are going through and what you are experiencing. He won’t kick you out to the curb, but he will know that you are now primed for the real process and work of therapy to begin and any detail you reveal helps him to apply his knowledge and experience in how to best help you. Meanwhile I am glad that your desperation has eased up to some degree. It’s an occasional facet of therapy that we all love to hate.
FYI: Last I knew both of the books are available on Amazon.com.
Keep us posted and enjoy your journey!
JM
Hi Em,
I am glad that you are happy with the way things are working out. Thanks for checking in and giving us your update. I hope you continue to have goodness and peace in your new friendship.
JM
I am glad that you are happy with the way things are working out. Thanks for checking in and giving us your update. I hope you continue to have goodness and peace in your new friendship.
JM
Thanks JM,
I read your response over and over, but not sure it will come out that way. The other issue I have alot of doctors involved with some health issues going on. They are all different kinds of neurologists,My T is a psych-neurologist and I am afraid that it will get back to them and maybe to my husband, who is "old school" and would never get over it or forgive me. I am so scared of losing my husband, he has always been my rock and my security until he hit 52, it all hit the fan...(mid life crisis mabye?)he is so impatient and takes everything personal!..He is so different than he used to be. Always exercising, taking vitamins, admiring himself in the mirror. I truley love him but my T is in the back of my mind all the time! What do you think? I'm in a delimma again! Charlotte
I read your response over and over, but not sure it will come out that way. The other issue I have alot of doctors involved with some health issues going on. They are all different kinds of neurologists,My T is a psych-neurologist and I am afraid that it will get back to them and maybe to my husband, who is "old school" and would never get over it or forgive me. I am so scared of losing my husband, he has always been my rock and my security until he hit 52, it all hit the fan...(mid life crisis mabye?)he is so impatient and takes everything personal!..He is so different than he used to be. Always exercising, taking vitamins, admiring himself in the mirror. I truley love him but my T is in the back of my mind all the time! What do you think? I'm in a delimma again! Charlotte
Hi Charlotte,
I am so sorry that you still feel such a dilemma, but it takes time to work through the shock of this big thing that just came down and seemingly hit you out of nowhere. And the more you educate yourself and realize that you can trust your T and that he will not violate his professional boundaries the more at ease you will become.
I don’t know if this is true in your area, but around here we have HIPPA law that prevents a health care provider from sharing ANY information with anyone else even other healthcare providers unless you sign a specific release. And even if you are dealing w/ his colleagues they cannot and should not share information w/o your consent. Anyway, I seriously doubt that your T would share the transference information w/ the other docs since this is not anything they’d even need to know. But I certainly understand your fears and I would even discuss this with your T.
My husband was not all for me entering therapy in the beginning. He had a bad attitude that therapists mess with people’s heads and his ex-mother-in-law is a psychologist and a total wack job herself. But he has watched the transformation in me over the last 2 years and thinks my T is doing a great job and he respects her immensely. Even though he does not understand the whole transference thing he does not feel threatened by it. On the other hand he did say he might feel a lot different if my T were a male. But frankly, keeping your hubby in the dark is going to raise more suspicions of their own. I believe that honest open dialogue w/ our spouses is of utmost importance so you don’t go around acting and feeling that you have something to hide: Though I understand maybe not sharing the sexual attraction with him at first, especially if there are some insecurities going on with him right now. I would start with a more simple explanation as to how it relates directly to your parents and filling the void they left in you so that you can heal. I even printed out Shrinklady’s page on it for my husband to read. When I asked my T how I should go about educating my husband she told me that “you can’t explain transference if you don’t understand it yourself.” Once you get a handle on it, then try to educate your husband in a manner that he will (hopefully) understand. In my opinion, if someone is looking for reason to be suspicious they will find anything whether legitimately or not.
You say your husband would never forgive you. Forgive you for what? Transference is not infidelity. It does not lead to infidelity-not if you have a good T. It has a lot less to do with our sexual desire than you feel right now, and that will calm down as you begin to work through the true nature behind the transference. Meanwhile, as much as you admire your T, focus on your husband. Don’t focus on ways that you feel your T may seem superior to your husband, instead focus on your husband’s positive qualities and what you love about him, he is bound to pick up on those signals.
You said that you see a lot of doctors, especially neurologists, so I wonder if exercising and working out with your husband is an interest that you can share or if you are limited in that capacity? If not, find something that the two of you can share together and join him in his quest in taking better care of yourselves. (Not to say that you already don’t- It is hard to get a grasp on a situation I know nothing about.) All this being said, I hope I have not stepped on your toes. I'm at a bit of a disadvantage to truly advise you when I don’t really know you or your circumstances. So please understand that my advice is free and you can take it or leave it, but it is meant with good intentions.
Feel free to tell me that I totally missed it if I did.
JM
I am so sorry that you still feel such a dilemma, but it takes time to work through the shock of this big thing that just came down and seemingly hit you out of nowhere. And the more you educate yourself and realize that you can trust your T and that he will not violate his professional boundaries the more at ease you will become.
I don’t know if this is true in your area, but around here we have HIPPA law that prevents a health care provider from sharing ANY information with anyone else even other healthcare providers unless you sign a specific release. And even if you are dealing w/ his colleagues they cannot and should not share information w/o your consent. Anyway, I seriously doubt that your T would share the transference information w/ the other docs since this is not anything they’d even need to know. But I certainly understand your fears and I would even discuss this with your T.
My husband was not all for me entering therapy in the beginning. He had a bad attitude that therapists mess with people’s heads and his ex-mother-in-law is a psychologist and a total wack job herself. But he has watched the transformation in me over the last 2 years and thinks my T is doing a great job and he respects her immensely. Even though he does not understand the whole transference thing he does not feel threatened by it. On the other hand he did say he might feel a lot different if my T were a male. But frankly, keeping your hubby in the dark is going to raise more suspicions of their own. I believe that honest open dialogue w/ our spouses is of utmost importance so you don’t go around acting and feeling that you have something to hide: Though I understand maybe not sharing the sexual attraction with him at first, especially if there are some insecurities going on with him right now. I would start with a more simple explanation as to how it relates directly to your parents and filling the void they left in you so that you can heal. I even printed out Shrinklady’s page on it for my husband to read. When I asked my T how I should go about educating my husband she told me that “you can’t explain transference if you don’t understand it yourself.” Once you get a handle on it, then try to educate your husband in a manner that he will (hopefully) understand. In my opinion, if someone is looking for reason to be suspicious they will find anything whether legitimately or not.
You say your husband would never forgive you. Forgive you for what? Transference is not infidelity. It does not lead to infidelity-not if you have a good T. It has a lot less to do with our sexual desire than you feel right now, and that will calm down as you begin to work through the true nature behind the transference. Meanwhile, as much as you admire your T, focus on your husband. Don’t focus on ways that you feel your T may seem superior to your husband, instead focus on your husband’s positive qualities and what you love about him, he is bound to pick up on those signals.
You said that you see a lot of doctors, especially neurologists, so I wonder if exercising and working out with your husband is an interest that you can share or if you are limited in that capacity? If not, find something that the two of you can share together and join him in his quest in taking better care of yourselves. (Not to say that you already don’t- It is hard to get a grasp on a situation I know nothing about.) All this being said, I hope I have not stepped on your toes. I'm at a bit of a disadvantage to truly advise you when I don’t really know you or your circumstances. So please understand that my advice is free and you can take it or leave it, but it is meant with good intentions.
Feel free to tell me that I totally missed it if I did.
JM
JM, How can you step on my toes when I am the one seeking for all the advice I can get. I am way stronger than you think in that respect. I can take out of what you say and understand what I need for my personal use and forget the rest....so with that said, I thank you for some really good ideas. I wasn't thinking about HIPPA and I will ask him about that. I sure hope the sexual attraction does subside soon. It has me so flustered sometimes especially when I am trying to focus on my marriage. My husband has it going on in the sex department and always has...so why am I thinking of my T during this time...the more I try to focus...the worse it seems to get...I guess that's why I feel like I'm cheating on him...I suppose that is a part of the tranference??...anyway...I have tried the exercise and the doing things together... it seems to be working some..but not much...so I just started dressing a little more dressy and sexier...got my hair done a different way..(It looks much better)...lost a few pounds and wear makeup most of the time now...I guess I had gotten pretty slack after 30 years...this seems to be attracting him more than anything else...but my question now is...am I doing it for my hubby...or because of the new feelings for my T?? The medical issues are not yet resolved. I will let you know after all the testing is complete, but thanks for caring. I really need all the prayers I can get right now.. you are a very kind person JM...you have taken in my problems and offered to help me out as much as possible. I really thank you for that. I have always tried to help those less fortunate than myself. I am glad there are others that do that too. you have such a great way of explaning things. I feel like I have known you for a long time. Don't worry about my toes...They have been stepped on, stomped and crushed over the years...and I lived thru it every time!!..talk to you soon, Charlotte
quote:Originally posted by Charlotte:
JM, How can you step on my toes when I am the one seeking for all the advice I can get. I am way stronger than you think in that respect. I can take out of what you say and understand what I need for my personal use and forget the rest....
Hi-I’m JM, I worry too much.
:embarassed:Anyway, it is a relief off my mind to know that you are ok w/ whatever I say, and I promise that I will only say something if it comes from my heart. It is not that you are any less fortunate than I am; it’s that I am just as fortunate to have found this website and many people to relate too. We all have very similar experiences with our therapy and I am sure that many others will tell you the same thing. There is a good sense of community here on this forum where we take turns helping each other; each having so much to give with their own valuable insight and experience. We all experience our ups and downs, our love and hates, our fantasies and disillusionments about therapy and our therapists. This certainly is a grounding station for me.
quote:...but my question now is...am I doing it for my hubby...or because of the new feelings for my T??
I can relate to this too, Charlotte. I started therapy 2 ½ yrs ago fringing on obesity. I had made up my mind that this is not where I wanted my life to go anymore and had begun eating healthier smaller portions w/ minimal results. But when I entered therapy I also started exercising, I believe in part because my T takes such good care of herself that she became a role model for me (I am sounding like a broken record with this line, but it fits). The pounds began to shed away and I liked the way I was looking: More like the me from four years past and more like the young woman my husband married, who was enjoying this too.
But something else was manifesting during this time and that was the sexual attraction to my T and part of me wanted her to notice me too. I was able to go out and buy new clothes, I styled my hair differently and I received a lot of comments from everyone not just on my looks, but on the new inner person that was being revealed. Therapy was changing me from the inside out and for the better and I took advantage of its momentum and made even healthier choices, often with my T in mind. (I started running again and would always imagine her running beside me) But what became the most important factor is that “I liked” what I was seeing and feeling about myself and it was being done for "my benefit". The bottom line is that we can’t hinge our changes on someone else (husband or T) because then it won’t last. However, we CAN use those results as a catalyst but then we need to make sure that this is ultimately for our own benefit as I’m sure you already know. BTW: We are having an interesting discussion on the” General Theory of Love” thread. River brought up this very thought, on how we do become molded by our T’s. Even if you have not read the book yet I think there are some juicy tid-bits being shared that you might enjoy. Hopefully there will be more comments on it, but our T’s DO become this new lens that we use to compare our old thoughts and beliefs to more positive new ones of their design. So there is a great influence.
Allowing our relationship w/ our T to be what it needs to be and walking the line of obsession and “fantasy cheating” can be a tough one. I’ve been there, ok. And I am sorry that I can’t promise that this will be a short-lived feeling, but it will require a lot of work on your part to try to neutralize it the best that you can and this will require (and yes, I’m going to say it again) honest, open, frank discussions w/ your T. There is no other way around it. Oh and if I am in anyway making this sound easy, don’t even think about it being easy. It is not easy to sit face to face with your T and divulge your inner most thoughts and fears about him. But it does GET a LITTLE easier each time.
It is really nice to get to know you Charlotte. And I really hope that you can experience a real healing from your therapeutic relationship and that your husband will see the benefits for you and that it will benefit him too. Let us know how your session goes this week.
Talk to you soon!
JM
Hi Em,
I'm glad to hear that your situation is going so well! Please let us know how it goes as I find it kind of fascinating to see how this plays out. I don't think I would be capable to making the transition but it really sounds like its working well for you.
AG
I'm glad to hear that your situation is going so well! Please let us know how it goes as I find it kind of fascinating to see how this plays out. I don't think I would be capable to making the transition but it really sounds like its working well for you.
AG
Hi Charlotte, and welcome to the forums! Sorry to have not chimed in earlier but I was out of town for a long weekend visiting colleges with my oldest child who's a senior this year.
Just Me has covered a lot of good stuff but if I could just throw a few more thoughts at you.
I want to reinforce that what you're feeling is pretty normal and not at all uncommon for people in therapy. I know the feelings between your husband and therapist can get really confusing. My therapist was actually my husband's therapist first, then we were both seeing him for marital counseling. I had been seeing a woman for a number of years and was still working with her individually, when she retired. It was a bit of a shock to realize that I was developing an attraction to the man working to save my marriage. Talk about feeling stupid! At first, I didn't think too much of it because it wasn't all that strong and he's an incredibly gentle man who made me feel listened to for the first time in a long time. Who wouldn't fall for a man who actually sat and listened AND understood you? But it kept growing and I did some research on transference and I'm grateful, I ran across a website whose author was a psychaistrist and strongly recommended telling your therapist about your feelings. So I made an appointment alone with my T and told him how I felt. One of the scariest things I've ever done. He was really awesome about it. He completely understood and was very accepting of my feelings. I was also terrified he would send me away but that didn't even come close to happening. As a matter of fact, it really led directly to me working with him on an individual basis.
I've needed the secure relationship with my T to help me work through the issues in my relationship with my husband. Our marriage has improved considerably and continues to do so. And although the attraction started out as a very strong erotic/romantic one, it has slowly changed into more of a paternal feel. I want him more as a father than as a romantic interest now. Although those feelings do surface occasionally.
The amazing thing about this happening in the relationship with your T is that usually what plays out in that relationship is what you do in most of your relationships. Some of my biggest breakthroughs have come from realizing that I have been acting out a long term pattern in my relationship with my T. But because a T is non-defensive and understands a lot of the issues and has clear boundaries, its a chance to talk about how you feel and what you want without fear of being judged or being sent away. Its a chance for you to understand why you do what you do and why you want what you want. In the hands of a good therapist, its an incredible opportunity for growth.
All that said, I know it's terrifying to think about telling him. And embarrassing. I swing between feeling like a clingy three year old and a 13 year old with her first crush. It can be a very out of control feeling. But you're not alone. There are a lot of people here who will understand. One way that I have found to handle it when you have to talk about something so uncomfortable is to talk about how you feel about telling your T BEFORE you tell him. Something along the lines of "I need to talk to you about something, but I'm scared if I tell you I will be sent away. I'm also feeling embarrassed about what I want to say, but I feel like its important to say it." One, it breaks the ice and commits you to saying it and secondly, your T can then offer reassurance which will make it easier to come out with it.
And I'll also back up what Just Me said about privacy. Your therapist cannot discuss your case or what happens in your sessions without your express permission even with other medical professionals. Anything you tell him is covered under client-therapist priviledge. So I don't think you need to worry on that account.
Let us know how you're doing and feel free to talk about all your feelings. If you've been reading the posts you'll know that we all run the gamut from triumphs to being in some very dark places. You don't have to do this alone. I'm looking forward to getting to know you.
AG
Just Me has covered a lot of good stuff but if I could just throw a few more thoughts at you.
I want to reinforce that what you're feeling is pretty normal and not at all uncommon for people in therapy. I know the feelings between your husband and therapist can get really confusing. My therapist was actually my husband's therapist first, then we were both seeing him for marital counseling. I had been seeing a woman for a number of years and was still working with her individually, when she retired. It was a bit of a shock to realize that I was developing an attraction to the man working to save my marriage. Talk about feeling stupid! At first, I didn't think too much of it because it wasn't all that strong and he's an incredibly gentle man who made me feel listened to for the first time in a long time. Who wouldn't fall for a man who actually sat and listened AND understood you? But it kept growing and I did some research on transference and I'm grateful, I ran across a website whose author was a psychaistrist and strongly recommended telling your therapist about your feelings. So I made an appointment alone with my T and told him how I felt. One of the scariest things I've ever done. He was really awesome about it. He completely understood and was very accepting of my feelings. I was also terrified he would send me away but that didn't even come close to happening. As a matter of fact, it really led directly to me working with him on an individual basis.
I've needed the secure relationship with my T to help me work through the issues in my relationship with my husband. Our marriage has improved considerably and continues to do so. And although the attraction started out as a very strong erotic/romantic one, it has slowly changed into more of a paternal feel. I want him more as a father than as a romantic interest now. Although those feelings do surface occasionally.
The amazing thing about this happening in the relationship with your T is that usually what plays out in that relationship is what you do in most of your relationships. Some of my biggest breakthroughs have come from realizing that I have been acting out a long term pattern in my relationship with my T. But because a T is non-defensive and understands a lot of the issues and has clear boundaries, its a chance to talk about how you feel and what you want without fear of being judged or being sent away. Its a chance for you to understand why you do what you do and why you want what you want. In the hands of a good therapist, its an incredible opportunity for growth.
All that said, I know it's terrifying to think about telling him. And embarrassing. I swing between feeling like a clingy three year old and a 13 year old with her first crush. It can be a very out of control feeling. But you're not alone. There are a lot of people here who will understand. One way that I have found to handle it when you have to talk about something so uncomfortable is to talk about how you feel about telling your T BEFORE you tell him. Something along the lines of "I need to talk to you about something, but I'm scared if I tell you I will be sent away. I'm also feeling embarrassed about what I want to say, but I feel like its important to say it." One, it breaks the ice and commits you to saying it and secondly, your T can then offer reassurance which will make it easier to come out with it.
And I'll also back up what Just Me said about privacy. Your therapist cannot discuss your case or what happens in your sessions without your express permission even with other medical professionals. Anything you tell him is covered under client-therapist priviledge. So I don't think you need to worry on that account.
Let us know how you're doing and feel free to talk about all your feelings. If you've been reading the posts you'll know that we all run the gamut from triumphs to being in some very dark places. You don't have to do this alone. I'm looking forward to getting to know you.
AG
HEY JM,
I AM SO GLAD THAT I MET YOU HERE. I FEEL LIKE A BEGINNER ON A BICYCLE WITH THIS TRANSFERENCE THING... I KNOW IT WILL NOT BE EASY! I HAVE HAD NERVOUS ENERGY ALL DAY LIKE A FREIGHT TRAIN GOING DOWN HILL! I GUESS TOMORROW'S SESSION IS THE BIG PRODUCTION. I HOPE I CAN GET IT OUT...I HAVE BEEN PRACTICING ALL DAY ON WHAT TO SAY...WISH ME LUCK...I'LL LET YOU KNOW WHAT HAPPENS...IF I LIVE THRU IT..CHARLOTTE
I AM SO GLAD THAT I MET YOU HERE. I FEEL LIKE A BEGINNER ON A BICYCLE WITH THIS TRANSFERENCE THING... I KNOW IT WILL NOT BE EASY! I HAVE HAD NERVOUS ENERGY ALL DAY LIKE A FREIGHT TRAIN GOING DOWN HILL! I GUESS TOMORROW'S SESSION IS THE BIG PRODUCTION. I HOPE I CAN GET IT OUT...I HAVE BEEN PRACTICING ALL DAY ON WHAT TO SAY...WISH ME LUCK...I'LL LET YOU KNOW WHAT HAPPENS...IF I LIVE THRU IT..CHARLOTTE
AG,
IT IS NICE TO MEET YOU! I HOPE THAT WE CAN TALK MORE. YOU SEEM LIKE MY KIND OF GIRL...I WENT THRU THE EXERCISE THING ABOUT 4 YEARS AGO...I WORK IN A HIGH SCHOOL AND WAS ASHAMED OF MY WEIGHT WITH ALL THOSE PRETTY LITTLE TEENAGE GIRLS AROUND. I WEIGHED ABOUT 300 POUNDS (292.5) TO BE EXACT...I BEGAN TO EXERCISE 30 MINUTES AND SWIMMING 30 LAPS IN THE POOL EVERYDAY. I ATE ONLY MEAT AND VEGTABLES, AND I LOST 85 POUNDS IN ABOUT 15 MONTHS. I KNOW WHAT YOU MEAN BY FEELING GOOD ABOUT YOURSELF AND IT KEEPS YOUR MOMENTOM GOING...WHEN I FIRST STARTED, I COULD ONLY EXERCISE 5-7 MINUTES AND SWIM 1 LAP AND REST...BUT EVERYDAY I PRESSED HARDER AND HARDER TO GET TO MY GOAL...WHICH WAS TO BE UNDER 200 POUNDS BY CHRISTMAS...IT WAS MY PRESENT TO MYSELF..I WEIGHED 204 ON CHRISTMAS MORNING...I WAS HURT AND DISAPOINTED...BUT IT KEPT ME FROM OVEREATING CHRISTMAS DAY...AND EVEN THOUGH I NEVER GOT UNDER 200 POUNDS...I AM VERY PROUD OF WHAT I ACCOMPLISHED BY MYSELF AND THE DIFERENCE IT MADE IN ME. I WENT FROM A SIZE 24/26 TO A 14/16...I NOW WEIGH 225...I HAVE GAINED 20 POUNDS SINCE ALL THIS MEDICAL STUFF AND THE THERAPY AND THE TRANSFERENCE AND THE MARRIAGE PROBLEMS...I GET DEPRESSED AND EAT...BUT I HAVE BEGAN THIS WEEK TO CUT BACK AND NOT DIET, BUT BE AWARE OF WHAT I EAT. I WANT TO GET MY MARRIAGE BACK TOGETHER THE WAY IT USED TO BE...I WANT TO WORK THIS OUT WITH MY T, AND I WANT TO BEAT THIS PROBLEM THAT I HAVE WITH MY BODY...I FIGURE IF I START WITH MYSELF...THE REST WILL FOLLOW...I WAS SO AMAZED THAT YOU WROTE ME THIS...I GUESS WE HAVE ALOT IN COMMON HUH?... I AM PREPING MYSELF FOR THE THE SESSION TOMORROW, AND HOPE I CAN CARRY THRU WITH MY PLAN TO TELL HIM. I HAVE TO GET THRU THIS, I THINK ABOUT HIM WAY TOO MUCH, I IMAGINE HIM WITH ME IN BED, HIM IN THE CAR WITH ME, AND HIM EVERYWHERE, BUT IT HAS TO STOP...AND I PLAN TO START THE PROCESS TOMORROW!!!...WISH ME LUCK...I WILL DEFINITLEY LET YOU KNOW WHAT HAPPENS....AND I'M GLAD I MET YOU HERE...EVERYONE IS SO KIND...BUT YET WE ARE ALL SO "THE SAME"...CHARLOTTE
IT IS NICE TO MEET YOU! I HOPE THAT WE CAN TALK MORE. YOU SEEM LIKE MY KIND OF GIRL...I WENT THRU THE EXERCISE THING ABOUT 4 YEARS AGO...I WORK IN A HIGH SCHOOL AND WAS ASHAMED OF MY WEIGHT WITH ALL THOSE PRETTY LITTLE TEENAGE GIRLS AROUND. I WEIGHED ABOUT 300 POUNDS (292.5) TO BE EXACT...I BEGAN TO EXERCISE 30 MINUTES AND SWIMMING 30 LAPS IN THE POOL EVERYDAY. I ATE ONLY MEAT AND VEGTABLES, AND I LOST 85 POUNDS IN ABOUT 15 MONTHS. I KNOW WHAT YOU MEAN BY FEELING GOOD ABOUT YOURSELF AND IT KEEPS YOUR MOMENTOM GOING...WHEN I FIRST STARTED, I COULD ONLY EXERCISE 5-7 MINUTES AND SWIM 1 LAP AND REST...BUT EVERYDAY I PRESSED HARDER AND HARDER TO GET TO MY GOAL...WHICH WAS TO BE UNDER 200 POUNDS BY CHRISTMAS...IT WAS MY PRESENT TO MYSELF..I WEIGHED 204 ON CHRISTMAS MORNING...I WAS HURT AND DISAPOINTED...BUT IT KEPT ME FROM OVEREATING CHRISTMAS DAY...AND EVEN THOUGH I NEVER GOT UNDER 200 POUNDS...I AM VERY PROUD OF WHAT I ACCOMPLISHED BY MYSELF AND THE DIFERENCE IT MADE IN ME. I WENT FROM A SIZE 24/26 TO A 14/16...I NOW WEIGH 225...I HAVE GAINED 20 POUNDS SINCE ALL THIS MEDICAL STUFF AND THE THERAPY AND THE TRANSFERENCE AND THE MARRIAGE PROBLEMS...I GET DEPRESSED AND EAT...BUT I HAVE BEGAN THIS WEEK TO CUT BACK AND NOT DIET, BUT BE AWARE OF WHAT I EAT. I WANT TO GET MY MARRIAGE BACK TOGETHER THE WAY IT USED TO BE...I WANT TO WORK THIS OUT WITH MY T, AND I WANT TO BEAT THIS PROBLEM THAT I HAVE WITH MY BODY...I FIGURE IF I START WITH MYSELF...THE REST WILL FOLLOW...I WAS SO AMAZED THAT YOU WROTE ME THIS...I GUESS WE HAVE ALOT IN COMMON HUH?... I AM PREPING MYSELF FOR THE THE SESSION TOMORROW, AND HOPE I CAN CARRY THRU WITH MY PLAN TO TELL HIM. I HAVE TO GET THRU THIS, I THINK ABOUT HIM WAY TOO MUCH, I IMAGINE HIM WITH ME IN BED, HIM IN THE CAR WITH ME, AND HIM EVERYWHERE, BUT IT HAS TO STOP...AND I PLAN TO START THE PROCESS TOMORROW!!!...WISH ME LUCK...I WILL DEFINITLEY LET YOU KNOW WHAT HAPPENS....AND I'M GLAD I MET YOU HERE...EVERYONE IS SO KIND...BUT YET WE ARE ALL SO "THE SAME"...CHARLOTTE
Charlotte,
That is such an awesome accomplishment. I am in awe! I have only been controlling my eating so far, I still need to add in the exercise. But it's really encouraging to know you lost so much. I've gone down at least a size but I have a lot further to go. But I'm happy as long as the numbers are going in the right direction.
Actually I think the best part is that instead of feeling like I'm being controlled by the food, the food now serves as a good indicator of how I'm doing. When the urge to eat gets really persistant when I'm not hungry, it's like someone screaming at me, "don't you think you should pay attention to how you're feeling?"
I think, in my case, food was a symptom, not the problem. Now that I'm finally dealing directly with my emotions, I don't need the food the way I used to. And honey, I would kill to be a 14/16 as right now I'm like a 28/30. Mainly, I want make sure I'm here to see my grandkids and have the ability to chase them around. (My kids are 15 and 17).
Don't worry too much about telling your T tomorrow. You will or you won't and either way it will be ok. You really can trust yourself for the timing. But I think you'll be able to do it. And definitely let us know what happens. And one thing I can definitely tell you is that its an incredible relief once its in the open. Not that is doesn't get painful again at times, but at least you don't have to hide it anymore. And as far as the obsessiveness, we've all been there, but recognize it for what it is, an indication of how important this relationship is. In some ways, my relationship with my T is something I've been looking for my whole life (that's the secure attachment that I've always needed and is such an important part of why I'm healing) AND the fantasy I've been chasing to try and avoid the pain of what I went through as a child (the part I need to mourn). But I wouldn't have realized either if I hadn't been able to talk to my T so openly about ALL my feelings about him with boundaries firmly in place to keep me safe. I hope it goes really well for you.
AG
That is such an awesome accomplishment. I am in awe! I have only been controlling my eating so far, I still need to add in the exercise. But it's really encouraging to know you lost so much. I've gone down at least a size but I have a lot further to go. But I'm happy as long as the numbers are going in the right direction.
Actually I think the best part is that instead of feeling like I'm being controlled by the food, the food now serves as a good indicator of how I'm doing. When the urge to eat gets really persistant when I'm not hungry, it's like someone screaming at me, "don't you think you should pay attention to how you're feeling?"
I think, in my case, food was a symptom, not the problem. Now that I'm finally dealing directly with my emotions, I don't need the food the way I used to. And honey, I would kill to be a 14/16 as right now I'm like a 28/30. Mainly, I want make sure I'm here to see my grandkids and have the ability to chase them around.
(My kids are 15 and 17). Don't worry too much about telling your T tomorrow. You will or you won't and either way it will be ok. You really can trust yourself for the timing. But I think you'll be able to do it. And definitely let us know what happens. And one thing I can definitely tell you is that its an incredible relief once its in the open. Not that is doesn't get painful again at times, but at least you don't have to hide it anymore. And as far as the obsessiveness, we've all been there, but recognize it for what it is, an indication of how important this relationship is. In some ways, my relationship with my T is something I've been looking for my whole life (that's the secure attachment that I've always needed and is such an important part of why I'm healing) AND the fantasy I've been chasing to try and avoid the pain of what I went through as a child (the part I need to mourn). But I wouldn't have realized either if I hadn't been able to talk to my T so openly about ALL my feelings about him with boundaries firmly in place to keep me safe. I hope it goes really well for you.
AG
quote:Originally posted by Charlotte:
I HAVE TO GET THRU THIS, I THINK ABOUT HIM WAY TOO MUCH, I IMAGINE HIM WITH ME IN BED, HIM IN THE CAR WITH ME, AND HIM EVERYWHERE, BUT IT HAS TO STOP...AND I PLAN TO START THE PROCESS TOMORROW!!!...
Hi Charlotte,
Yea, I wish it were that easy, but it isn’t. In the words of my T, “We are not looking to get rid of this.” I am anxious to hear how it went with your session today. I think I was a little numb for a few days after I brought it up the first time, but that eventually faded the more we talked about it.
And let me add along with AG that you have made some extraordinary accomplishments in your weight loss. 4 lbs from your goal last Christmas is nothing to balk at, you did great! And don’t get discouraged about where you are at right now. (easy for me to say, cause I do the same thing) You’re still a lot better off than where you started. But I know it can be so discouraging. I am impressed with you swimming 30 laps- Wow! I am going to take swimming lessons this winter at our local rec center as a new challenge for myself, because once you hit a plateau with your weight it means you have to change something in order to burn the fat and calories you were burning before. It makes sense because we have less weight and therefore less resistance to burn the fat. But the good thing is muscle burns fat and swimming tones different muscles. (Cross my fingers) It is during these plateaus that we often turn around and start putting weight back on too. So I am learning to always challenge myself. (Ok, I try anyway)
Talk to you later!
JM
JM and AG,
Well, I did it!!...I really did it!!..And I am here to tell you it was the hardest thing I have done in many mny years. I literally thought I was going to have a blackout. I paced the floor all day and cleaned my office so much I thought the staff was going to throw me out the window! I was so nervous!
I went in and set down for a minute and we talked about my weekly goals, then he asked me why I seemed so anxious. (I was shaking) I said, "Because I need to tell you something, but I need to ask you a few questions first."
I asked if he shared his notes about our sessions with my other doctors, and if he was allowed to talk to anyone about what I say in session. Then he reassured me he was not going to do that. I told him I was afraid if I told him I would get thrown out and asked him if he would do that or had he ever. He said I can't say if I don't know what for, so after a few minutes that seemed like 3 hours, I just said that I had been reading alot about tranference online, and I felt like I was having a problem with it myself about him! I told him I had fallen in love with him, he just said "Ok" then he asked my why...I told him that I wasn't sure, but him being "So damn sexy" sure wasn't helping!he said he had ran into some problems with transference before in hes sessions, and get this....he knew I was having these feelings the wholetime, but said if he had said it, I would have denied it and never been able to accept it or get help for it...I would have probably just quit coming...which is true!!
Again I asked him if I was getting dismissed from him for it, and he said no!!..Thank God!!. but he did tell me straight up that there were no mutual feelings, and he would not continue to let me see him if at anytime he felt any differently, or if I did not seem to be progressing because of my feelings!..but I felt like a boulder had been lifted off my shoulders. I couldn't believe the way we talked for the rest of the session It was awesome!!...Thank you guys for all the support!!..I could not have done it without the encouraging words that you have been sending to me everynight. I ran off th replies you have given me, and read them every chance I got today. It kept me pumped up in a positive mood...and I was able to pull it off!!!...I will write more tomorrow...I took some medication and I can barley see these keys..Thanks again! Charlotte
Well, I did it!!...I really did it!!..And I am here to tell you it was the hardest thing I have done in many mny years. I literally thought I was going to have a blackout. I paced the floor all day and cleaned my office so much I thought the staff was going to throw me out the window! I was so nervous!
I went in and set down for a minute and we talked about my weekly goals, then he asked me why I seemed so anxious. (I was shaking) I said, "Because I need to tell you something, but I need to ask you a few questions first."
I asked if he shared his notes about our sessions with my other doctors, and if he was allowed to talk to anyone about what I say in session. Then he reassured me he was not going to do that. I told him I was afraid if I told him I would get thrown out and asked him if he would do that or had he ever. He said I can't say if I don't know what for, so after a few minutes that seemed like 3 hours, I just said that I had been reading alot about tranference online, and I felt like I was having a problem with it myself about him! I told him I had fallen in love with him, he just said "Ok" then he asked my why...I told him that I wasn't sure, but him being "So damn sexy" sure wasn't helping!he said he had ran into some problems with transference before in hes sessions, and get this....he knew I was having these feelings the wholetime, but said if he had said it, I would have denied it and never been able to accept it or get help for it...I would have probably just quit coming...which is true!!
Again I asked him if I was getting dismissed from him for it, and he said no!!..Thank God!!. but he did tell me straight up that there were no mutual feelings, and he would not continue to let me see him if at anytime he felt any differently, or if I did not seem to be progressing because of my feelings!..but I felt like a boulder had been lifted off my shoulders. I couldn't believe the way we talked for the rest of the session It was awesome!!...Thank you guys for all the support!!..I could not have done it without the encouraging words that you have been sending to me everynight. I ran off th replies you have given me, and read them every chance I got today. It kept me pumped up in a positive mood...and I was able to pull it off!!!...I will write more tomorrow...I took some medication and I can barley see these keys..Thanks again! Charlotte
I am glad that the hardest part is over for you Charlotte. Would you throw something at me if I told you I was nervous for you? Not because I thought for one minute that confronting this was a bad idea, but because I know how frightening it all can be. I must say that it sounds like your T took it all in a very warm and understanding manner and most importantly that he is going to maintain a highly professional level about your feelings. I love how he reassured you that the feeling is not mutual. While to some degree that may seem cold, it is a good indication that you can really trust him. You have a safe place to go with all these emotions and now you can begin to work through them. I am happy for you.
I look forward to hearing more later. But for now I must get ready for my last appointment with my T for 3 weeks! UGH!
JM
Not because I thought for one minute that confronting this was a bad idea, but because I know how frightening it all can be. I must say that it sounds like your T took it all in a very warm and understanding manner and most importantly that he is going to maintain a highly professional level about your feelings. I love how he reassured you that the feeling is not mutual. While to some degree that may seem cold, it is a good indication that you can really trust him. You have a safe place to go with all these emotions and now you can begin to work through them. I am happy for you. I look forward to hearing more later. But for now I must get ready for my last appointment with my T for 3 weeks! UGH!
JM
Charlotte,
That was just great to hear. Your T reacted well on the two most important things. He was able to hear and accept your feelings and he made it clear that the boundaries are clear and in place. Those are the two most significant factors in working through the transference.
That was very courageous of you to talk to him about him, and I'm really glad it turned out so well.
AG
That was just great to hear. Your T reacted well on the two most important things. He was able to hear and accept your feelings and he made it clear that the boundaries are clear and in place. Those are the two most significant factors in working through the transference.
That was very courageous of you to talk to him about him, and I'm really glad it turned out so well.
AG
Hello Everyone,
I have had a really rough day! I had several doctor appts today, and an EKG, MRI, MRA, and a C-Spine scan. I am worn out and will talk to you all tomorrow! I need everyone to pray hard they will find out some answers to my health issues. It has been going on since January. I am getting really stressed about all this! Have a wonderful night. Charlotte
I have had a really rough day! I had several doctor appts today, and an EKG, MRI, MRA, and a C-Spine scan. I am worn out and will talk to you all tomorrow! I need everyone to pray hard they will find out some answers to my health issues. It has been going on since January. I am getting really stressed about all this! Have a wonderful night. Charlotte
Hi Charlotte,
I can understand you why you must be worn out. I hope you at least had a good nights rest.
You are in my thoughts and prayers.
JM
I can understand you why you must be worn out. I hope you at least had a good nights rest.
You are in my thoughts and prayers.
JM
Charlotte,
That does not sound like a fun day! You'll be in my prayers also.
AG
That does not sound like a fun day! You'll be in my prayers also.
AG
HELLO ALL,
I'M NOT SURE IF IT'S THE RELIEF OF GETTING EVERYTHING OUT IN THE OPEN OR THE BUSY WEEK WITH ALL THE TESTING I HAVE BEEN THRU, BUT I HAVE BEEN RATHER RELAXED THIS WEEK WITHOUT SO MUCH ANIEXTY AND BEING SO DEPRESSED...STILL DEPRESSED BUT NOT AS MUCH...OF COURSE OUR SON CAME IN FOR 3 DAYS AND THAT WAS SUCH A SURPRISE. WE ONLY SEE HIM ABOUT EVERY 3 MONTHS FOR A FEW HOURS OR 1 NIGHT IF WE ARE LUCKY!! WANTED TO LET YOU ALL KNOW THAT I MAY NOT BE ON THE FORUM NEXT WEEK. I HAVE TO GO TO THE HOSPITAL NEXT WEEK FOR 4 OR 5 DAYS.. 
FOR SOME SEVERAL EXTENSIVE TEST. I PROBABLY WILL NOT HAVE ACCESS TO THE NET. 
ANNNNNNDDD I WILL NOT GET TO SEE MY T FOR OUR SESSION EITHER....AND THAT STINKS WORSE THAN THE TESTING! . ANYWAY HOPE YOU ALL WILL REMEMBER ME IN A SHORT PRAYER THRU OUT THE WEEK. PRAY THEY WILL FIND OUT WHAT IS WRONG WITH ME...THIS HAS GONE ON FOR WAY TO LONG NOW!! I WILL THINK OF YOU ALL, AND KEEP YOUR REQUEST NEXT TO MY HEART AS I PRAY...BUT I WILL TALK TO YOU OVER THE WEEKEND...SEE YA, CHARLOTTE
I'M NOT SURE IF IT'S THE RELIEF OF GETTING EVERYTHING OUT IN THE OPEN OR THE BUSY WEEK WITH ALL THE TESTING I HAVE BEEN THRU, BUT I HAVE BEEN RATHER RELAXED THIS WEEK WITHOUT SO MUCH ANIEXTY AND BEING SO DEPRESSED...STILL DEPRESSED BUT NOT AS MUCH...OF COURSE OUR SON CAME IN FOR 3 DAYS AND THAT WAS SUCH A SURPRISE
. WE ONLY SEE HIM ABOUT EVERY 3 MONTHS FOR A FEW HOURS OR 1 NIGHT IF WE ARE LUCKY!! WANTED TO LET YOU ALL KNOW THAT I MAY NOT BE ON THE FORUM NEXT WEEK. I HAVE TO GO TO THE HOSPITAL NEXT WEEK FOR 4 OR 5 DAYS.. FOR SOME SEVERAL EXTENSIVE TEST. I PROBABLY WILL NOT HAVE ACCESS TO THE NET. ANNNNNNDDD I WILL NOT GET TO SEE MY T FOR OUR SESSION EITHER....AND THAT STINKS WORSE THAN THE TESTING! . ANYWAY HOPE YOU ALL WILL REMEMBER ME IN A SHORT PRAYER THRU OUT THE WEEK. PRAY THEY WILL FIND OUT WHAT IS WRONG WITH ME...THIS HAS GONE ON FOR WAY TO LONG NOW!! I WILL THINK OF YOU ALL, AND KEEP YOUR REQUEST NEXT TO MY HEART AS I PRAY...BUT I WILL TALK TO YOU OVER THE WEEKEND...SEE YA, CHARLOTTE
Hi Charlotte,
Sorry to hear you have to go in the hospital for extensive testing. I could be wrong, but it doesn't sound like much fun. But I do hope they find out what's wrong with you, it must be hard wading through all these medical procedures without knowing where it's going. You'll be in my thoughts and prayers and we'll still be here when you once again have web access (I HATE no web access, I definitely go into withdrawal!)
AG
Sorry to hear you have to go in the hospital for extensive testing. I could be wrong, but it doesn't sound like much fun.
But I do hope they find out what's wrong with you, it must be hard wading through all these medical procedures without knowing where it's going. You'll be in my thoughts and prayers and we'll still be here when you once again have web access (I HATE no web access, I definitely go into withdrawal!)AG
Hey all, It's me again...sorry to be so lame these past few days, but I have really been distredssed about the hospital deal...the tests can deal with, I have been having them for 8 months...BUT I can't bear the thought of not seeing my T this week! I feel like a teenager that was stood up for a blind date. Is this normal with transference? I thought after I told him everything it would help me get over some of the attraction and need to see him unsparingly.. but that takes a while I guess...I even called the office 3 times today just to hear him speak on the machine...I have lost it!!!..It is still 11 days till I see him again...his office is across from the hospital and I asked him if he could stop by...but he said he didn't know if that was a good idea just now...I thought it was a really good idea of course..oh well, I will try to deal.. 
I hope all of you have a rally good week and good sessions. I will really miss my new friends here and can't wait to get back to see how you all are doing. If the testing doesn't kill me the Internet withdrawals may ...until next week...Charlotte
I feel like a teenager that was stood up for a blind date. Is this normal with transference? I thought after I told him everything it would help me get over some of the attraction and need to see him unsparingly.. but that takes a while I guess...I even called the office 3 times today just to hear him speak on the machine...I have lost it!!!..It is still 11 days till I see him again...his office is across from the hospital and I asked him if he could stop by...but he said he didn't know if that was a good idea just now...I thought it was a really good idea of course..oh well, I will try to deal.. I hope all of you have a rally good week and good sessions. I will really miss my new friends here and can't wait to get back to see how you all are doing. If the testing doesn't kill me the Internet withdrawals may ...until next week...Charlotte
Hi Charlotte,
You are NOT lame. Well then if you are we all are, at least that is the motto we’ve adopted here. Transference is as complicated as the emotions they are attached to. Don’t rush through them but allow yourself to experience them and work at the deeper things attached to it. Your T is just a stand in so to speak for all the vital connections you need to process. Let it be as intense as it needs to be. You are ok. That teenager being stood up for a blind date is a good analogy of the feelings that crisscross wildly through our minds and hearts. And yes, this is completely normal to have feelings that strong and even painful at times because of what they represent. When we are apart from our T’s it can actually feel heartbreaking and just as intense as the separation anxiety experienced by a toddler when his/her mother leaves temporarily. (Believe me this I know all too well)
That is very brave of you to ask your T to visit you in the hospital. That speaks volumes to the honesty and courage that you are willing to put forth and I believe that is very important to our therapeutic progress. So I think you are doing very well, especially in that department. It is also understandable that he may not be sure that is a good idea, but don’t forget that you can still call him while you are in the hospital.
We’ll be thinking of you and look forward to your return.
Take care!
JM
You are NOT lame. Well then if you are we all are, at least that is the motto we’ve adopted here. Transference is as complicated as the emotions they are attached to. Don’t rush through them but allow yourself to experience them and work at the deeper things attached to it. Your T is just a stand in so to speak for all the vital connections you need to process. Let it be as intense as it needs to be. You are ok. That teenager being stood up for a blind date is a good analogy of the feelings that crisscross wildly through our minds and hearts. And yes, this is completely normal to have feelings that strong and even painful at times because of what they represent. When we are apart from our T’s it can actually feel heartbreaking and just as intense as the separation anxiety experienced by a toddler when his/her mother leaves temporarily. (Believe me this I know all too well)
That is very brave of you to ask your T to visit you in the hospital. That speaks volumes to the honesty and courage that you are willing to put forth and I believe that is very important to our therapeutic progress. So I think you are doing very well, especially in that department. It is also understandable that he may not be sure that is a good idea, but don’t forget that you can still call him while you are in the hospital.
We’ll be thinking of you and look forward to your return.
Take care!
JM
When I feel the pain of separation from my T I try to remember that it isn't all about missing her, it is also the release of the repressed pain from my past. I can't say that none of it is about her because she is a significant figure in my life now which I believe I would feel whether or not there was transference. But the majority of the pain I contribute to my unmet needs that have been allowed to surface. I have found that the only thing I can do is to let myself grieve for the past. Understanding this, the how and whys of transference, doesn't make it hurt less but it does remove the confusion and shame of the experience. By the way, all of this I learned from Attachment Girl, Just Me and Shrinklady (has anyone heard from her lately?). These wise women have been able to explain transference in a way I could really understand. Not that my T hasn't tried but as she is the object of the transference I have had a hard time talking to her directly about it. It has gotten easier lately and a lot of the transference I've experienced with other people has faded (what a relief that has been!) Thanks girls. Keep up the good work.
Charlotte,
I agree, you are NOT being lame! We've all been there. I don't have much to add to what JM and River had said, (both wise women as River mentioned although she left herself out!) except that we understand. And I know it's hard for you that your T said he wouldn't come to the hospital but 1) That's a good indication that he has good boundaries which is seriously important when dealing with transference and 2) would be a great thing to discuss with him when you go back. both how you felt about it and why he said no. I find that much of the work in therapy gets done around discussing the things that happen in my relationship with my T and my feelings about them. It's pretty uncomfortable to talk about in the beginning because we're not used to being so open with someone about how we feel about what's going on in the relationship but it gets easier with time as you see that your T accepts and understands how you feel. Take care, I hope the testing goes well.
AG
I agree, you are NOT being lame! We've all been there. I don't have much to add to what JM and River had said, (both wise women as River mentioned although she left herself out!) except that we understand. And I know it's hard for you that your T said he wouldn't come to the hospital but 1) That's a good indication that he has good boundaries which is seriously important when dealing with transference and 2) would be a great thing to discuss with him when you go back. both how you felt about it and why he said no. I find that much of the work in therapy gets done around discussing the things that happen in my relationship with my T and my feelings about them. It's pretty uncomfortable to talk about in the beginning because we're not used to being so open with someone about how we feel about what's going on in the relationship but it gets easier with time as you see that your T accepts and understands how you feel. Take care, I hope the testing goes well.
AG
quote:These wise women have been able to explain transference in a way I could really understand.
I’m not sure that it is any more wisdom than it is experience, of which we ALL have an abundance of both, but it’s also about validation. Personally I can easily share my feelings and opinions with others, but I find my own healing and understanding come from the validation brought on by the experiences of others. And just so that you know, I am working it out as I go along just like every one else.
When it comes to value, I have found that some of the simplest and most direct posts by one and all to be just as important and insightful as any around here. I miss certain ones when they cannot be around for whatever reasons. I sure hope it is not because they fear they have nothing valuable to share, because that is not true. It is the diversity that makes this such a wonderful community that I keep coming back to. So please don’t sell yourself short River. I always look forward to reading your posts as I do Attachment Girls, Robin/Scott/Antoni/Samy’s, BW’s, Sarah’s, and others whom we have not heard from in a very long time. Of course I can’t leave out Shrinklady who must be up to her ears in trying to keep up with things around here, but it is all valuable, helpful, and well rounded experiences whether it is from Shrinklady and any one of the newbies around here. Whatever brings us here and encourages us or concerns us is worth sharing no matter how insignificant it might seem to ourselves; it is probably exactly what someone else needs to relate to.
I remember one of the episodes I posted about being frustrated with my T. I had some really nice responses, but one of the most poignant was from Scott who simply said “I say to my T on occasion... 'sometimes, all you need to do is to say sorry'...” That’s not to diminish the other replies at all, because they were all helpful and I cherished reading every one.
So why I am inclined to be giving some sort of lecture here??
I am sorry, it wasn’t intended to be a lecture at all, but PLEASE know how valuable you are around here, River. I relate to so many things you say, including your transference for others besides your T. I never knew what that was before, but in looking back at certain relationships in my past, I see it for what it is now. –Thank you! JM
*I hope this came out ok.* Otherwise feel free to use AG's HTML slapper she invented.
JM,
Hear hear!! I heartily agree!
AG
Hear hear!! I heartily agree!
AG
WHAT- you want her to hit me with the HTML slapper don't you??
JM,
Don't be foolish, that's my job!
AG
Don't be foolish, that's my job!
AG
I'm following all of the discussion here with interest as I can totally relate.
I was supposed to hear from Dr. X about labs a week ago and I have not and my immediate thought was that he didn't want to talk to me or he doesn't want to to be my doctor anymore. In reality it probably has little to do with me but I feel slighted and a little abandoned. He used to call me about my labs the moment they became available.
Does anyone think of their transference object as a security blanket, someone who can protect them? I think this of Dr.X and when I can't sleep I imagine him in bed with me, his arms wrapped around me, protecting me from evil.
I was supposed to hear from Dr. X about labs a week ago and I have not and my immediate thought was that he didn't want to talk to me or he doesn't want to to be my doctor anymore. In reality it probably has little to do with me but I feel slighted and a little abandoned. He used to call me about my labs the moment they became available.
Does anyone think of their transference object as a security blanket, someone who can protect them? I think this of Dr.X and when I can't sleep I imagine him in bed with me, his arms wrapped around me, protecting me from evil.
You feel this way because your Dr. X has become your secure base. You have sort of attached to him. He makes you feel safe and secure, which is a wonderful feeling for those of us who have never had that feeling of safety in our childhoods. I feel this with my T... most times. He is my safe place.
quote:Does anyone think of their transference object as a security blanket, someone who can protect them? I think this of Dr.X and when I can't sleep I imagine him in bed with me, his arms wrapped around me, protecting me from evil.
Oh YES! My T IS my secure base all the way. But she CAN be. I am worried that you will never get a chance to work through your transference with Dr. X because of his limitations with it. Then again, maybe I am assuming wrong and you are working them out with your T. I hope you are.
JM
Hi Sprinting Gal,
My T is my security blanket, life preserver, and binky all rolled into one. The safest place on earth is being in his office. Sometimes I just sit there during a session and try to soak up feeling safe. So I totally understand your feelings. I have to agree with JM, though, I would think this is more difficult having these feeling for a doctor who's not your T. But as far as you're feeling, welcome to a growing club of people who feel the same way!
AG
My T is my security blanket, life preserver, and binky all rolled into one. The safest place on earth is being in his office. Sometimes I just sit there during a session and try to soak up feeling safe. So I totally understand your feelings. I have to agree with JM, though, I would think this is more difficult having these feeling for a doctor who's not your T. But as far as you're feeling, welcome to a growing club of people who feel the same way!
AG
JM,
I didn't know if I wanted to laugh or cry looking at that picture of Linus. That is EXACTLY what it feels like. How perfect!
I'm glad the recording is helping and I just want to say again how envious I am of you having that (although not at all envious of the reason).
AG
I didn't know if I wanted to laugh or cry looking at that picture of Linus. That is EXACTLY what it feels like. How perfect!
I'm glad the recording is helping and I just want to say again how envious I am of you having that (although not at all envious of the reason).
AG
Hi,
it is samY, not samI,
i very particular about that point.
samy
it is samY, not samI,
i very particular about that point.
samy
what's a HTML slapper?
we not talkin our T this mornin though we usuali does on tuesday mornin but we cutin down.
sucks huh?
samy
we not talkin our T this mornin though we usuali does on tuesday mornin but we cutin down.
sucks huh?
samy
Hi samy, I am very sorry. I will be more careful in the future. Thanks for telling me. But I hope that does not have anything to do with wanting to use the HTML slapper? 
YIKES! cutting down on T time sounds scary. And yes that sucks! How are you hanging in there?
Glad to hear from you.
JM
YIKES! cutting down on T time sounds scary. And yes that sucks! How are you hanging in there?
Glad to hear from you.
JM
An HTML Slapper is something that AG mentally invented to slap either one of us when we get too critical of oursleves.
BTW: I changed the one ocurrence of your mispelled name that I KNOW of. It's important to me because I know that when people make a "certain" mispronunciation of my real name I get very agitated. Once a school teacher said she liked the wrong pronunciation better and insisted on calling me that all school year no matter how much I protested. GRR!
BTW: I changed the one ocurrence of your mispelled name that I KNOW of. It's important to me because I know that when people make a "certain" mispronunciation of my real name I get very agitated. Once a school teacher said she liked the wrong pronunciation better and insisted on calling me that all school year no matter how much I protested. GRR!
quote:Originally posted by Just Me:
Oh YES! My T IS my secure base all the way. But she CAN be. I am worried that you will never get a chance to work through your transference with Dr. X because of his limitations with it. Then again, maybe I am assuming wrong and you are working them out with your T. I hope you are.
JM
I don't really know how to work it out with my T. We've talked about it some but I only talk about him when there has been an interaction; I don't bring up what I think about him in my head when there has been no interaction.
Men have never felt safe to me. I still have this image in my head that men are protectors despite the fact that none have ever protected me or tried. He tried and that resonated in some empty place within me. He is a secure figure in my head but I know "IRL" that he probably is not.
JM, I have an old voice mail from Dr. X that I refuse to delete because the sound of his voice comforts me. I have felt psycho (for lack of a better word) for keeping it and after reading that your T made a recording for you, I feel better about that.
Thanks for the feedback everyone.
SprintingGal
SprintingGal,
Glad that makes you feel better! You deserve to feel good about your needs and be able to express them. Psycho is exactly how I feel sometimes too. It comes with the territory.
Just so that you know: I save vms from my T all the time, I call her vm just to hear her voice-all the time, and I must have played the recording 100 million times by now. -It's all good and ok. I became ok with all of this from knowing that others on this forum go through what I do too.
I'm pulling for ya!
JM
Glad that makes you feel better! You deserve to feel good about your needs and be able to express them. Psycho is exactly how I feel sometimes too. It comes with the territory.
Just so that you know: I save vms from my T all the time, I call her vm just to hear her voice-all the time, and I must have played the recording 100 million times by now. -It's all good and ok. I became ok with all of this from knowing that others on this forum go through what I do too.
I'm pulling for ya!
JM
Sprinting Gal,
Just to help in the feeling "normal" and not psycho department, I have a voicemail from my T from LAST NOVEMBER that I have kept (having to renew saving it every 21 days) to listen to for comfort. So don't feel bad.
AG
Just to help in the feeling "normal" and not psycho department, I have a voicemail from my T from LAST NOVEMBER that I have kept (having to renew saving it every 21 days) to listen to for comfort. So don't feel bad.
AG
I have two voicemails that I have from February of this year. So I guess I'm in the club too.
True North
True North
Well since everyone is fessing up I might as well tell you that I have a couple vms as well.
I'm amazed at all the brave souls. So lets sweeten the pot... 
How many of you have told your T that you save their vms?
I have. I don't think she was surprised nor am I the first to do so. She has told me that some of her C's do call her vm just to hear her voice.
How many of you have told your T that you save their vms?
I have. I don't think she was surprised nor am I the first to do so. She has told me that some of her C's do call her vm just to hear her voice.
Oh Heavens No! She would have to admit to something as equally embarrassing first. I don't call her vm to just listen and not leave a message because I think it's a cell which means call waiting which means she would know if I did.
Has anyone noticed hell freezing over? I've never admitted to hanging on to the voicemail but I did talk to him about googling him, finding his grandaughter's blog and learning way too much about his family. My, that was a fun session. He was great, I was a whimpering mess. And I can't call anywhere to hear his voice!! He has an answering service.
But considering the kind of accessibility he provides I would be a terrible person to complain. So I try not to.
I've never admitted to hanging on to the voicemail but I did talk to him about googling him, finding his grandaughter's blog and learning way too much about his family. My, that was a fun session. He was great, I was a whimpering mess. And I can't call anywhere to hear his voice!! He has an answering service. But considering the kind of accessibility he provides I would be a terrible person to complain. So I try not to.
quote:YIKES! cutting down on T time sounds scary. And yes that sucks! How are you hanging in there?
i think goin to school all the time sucks!
samy
Samy,
Do you find it boring? I like school when its stuff I want to learn but it's the worst when it's stuff you could care less about.
AG
Do you find it boring? I like school when its stuff I want to learn but it's the worst when it's stuff you could care less about.
AG
i'm not asposed to be the person 'out' to learn so i need to hide inside.
samy
samy
Hi Samy,
I imagine that can't be easy and maybe even exhausting. Do you find it that way? (to stay inside sometimes)
JM
I imagine that can't be easy and maybe even exhausting. Do you find it that way? (to stay inside sometimes)
JM
AG,
about your quote about hell freezing over,your T having an answering service(i'm sorry, i haven't figured out how to use the quotes, tools, etc): i am the same, except i don't even think he has answering service(if he does i'm not priviledged--or important--enough to have the #. of course, i feel like an intruder when i even try and see him weekly from time to time, so i doubt i would ever call anyway. my last session was very good--except i kept whining and apologizing for calling for an earlier than my usual every-3-weeks appointment. at the end, he told me to try and tough it out(my next is 2 weeks) and use the tools and suggestions he'd given me. of course, he said i have his #'s(the 2 clinic #'s), and i know he meant well and was being therapeutic. but what i FELT was him saying --please don't come back anytime soon, you bother me, i don't like you.....my intellectual side knows better. whenever i do go earlier, he usually says well, you probably needed to come in. but anyway, i'm so obsessive about stuff. if i had a voicemail, i know i'd definiyely hang onto it!!
about your quote about hell freezing over,your T having an answering service(i'm sorry, i haven't figured out how to use the quotes, tools, etc): i am the same, except i don't even think he has answering service(if he does i'm not priviledged--or important--enough to have the #. of course, i feel like an intruder when i even try and see him weekly from time to time, so i doubt i would ever call anyway. my last session was very good--except i kept whining and apologizing for calling for an earlier than my usual every-3-weeks appointment. at the end, he told me to try and tough it out(my next is 2 weeks) and use the tools and suggestions he'd given me. of course, he said i have his #'s(the 2 clinic #'s), and i know he meant well and was being therapeutic. but what i FELT was him saying --please don't come back anytime soon, you bother me, i don't like you.....my intellectual side knows better. whenever i do go earlier, he usually says well, you probably needed to come in. but anyway, i'm so obsessive about stuff. if i had a voicemail, i know i'd definiyely hang onto it!!
Trust me AJB, if he had an answering service, you'd have the number since the answering service serves as a buffer between the therapist and patient. (Although side note, my T having an answering service makes its easier to call since I'm not the one interrupting him and I know he can choose when to call back.)
I understand how you're hesitant to go in more often but needing to go in more often is very understandable. Most people I know in therapy go a minimum of once a week and its not unusual to do twice a week when doing really hard work.
But the thing I'm the most concerned about is how uncomfortable you are with having needs and expressing them. I say this because it's a very familiar feeling for me. It's perfectly ok and legitimate for you to go as often as you need to. I would try and talk to him about how you're feeling about this and ask if he meant "please don't come back anytime soon" He didn't, but it will help you to hear it. The toughest part about getting through this is that what you KNOW really doesn't do much good, it's what your experience that's important.
AG
I understand how you're hesitant to go in more often but needing to go in more often is very understandable. Most people I know in therapy go a minimum of once a week and its not unusual to do twice a week when doing really hard work.
But the thing I'm the most concerned about is how uncomfortable you are with having needs and expressing them. I say this because it's a very familiar feeling for me. It's perfectly ok and legitimate for you to go as often as you need to. I would try and talk to him about how you're feeling about this and ask if he meant "please don't come back anytime soon" He didn't, but it will help you to hear it. The toughest part about getting through this is that what you KNOW really doesn't do much good, it's what your experience that's important.
AG
AG:
thanks again. i think i'll fire him and hire you. LOL. i was wondering if you were a mental health care provider, but i read some posts from the past where someone else asked and you said you weren't. but seriously, if you enjoy it, you're an excellent communicator(at least for helping OTHERS).
thanks again. i think i'll fire him and hire you. LOL. i was wondering if you were a mental health care provider, but i read some posts from the past where someone else asked and you said you weren't. but seriously, if you enjoy it, you're an excellent communicator(at least for helping OTHERS).
oh yeah, and if i did tell him that stuff, i don't think he'd say what i wanted to hear. he might say " why do you think i don't want you to come in so often?" or "and how does that make you feel?"...........
I know, I once called my T on that. He answered a question I asked with another question and I told him "Just like a therapist, answer a question with a question." He gave me a wry grin, and waited for my answer. They really can drive you bonkers sometimes. It helps to imagine throwing things at them when you feel like that.
And thank you for the compliments.
AG
And thank you for the compliments.
AG
quote:Hi Samy,
I imagine that can't be easy and maybe even exhausting. Do you find it that way? (to stay inside sometimes)
JM
i duno about exhaustin, but borin. i mean, i wana just be able to come out or not when i like ya know? an i can't. we not told them abut the insiders cuz i gues it would hurt our chances to get work or somthin. i supose it freaky for some peopl.
samy
Yea, I guess some people are uncomfortable with what they don't understand.
I wondered if it was exhausting only because when I am feeling my deeper emotions from my childhood I get really tired. I realize that it is not the same, so I wondered if it gets tiring for you too. But I appreciate the boring part. 14 year olds get bored easy.(Did I get the age right?)
I wondered if it was exhausting only because when I am feeling my deeper emotions from my childhood I get really tired. I realize that it is not the same, so I wondered if it gets tiring for you too. But I appreciate the boring part. 14 year olds get bored easy.
(Did I get the age right?)quote:Most people I know in therapy go a minimum of once a week and its not unusual to do twice a week when doing really hard work.
AG:
THEN WHY DOES HE MAKE ME FEEL LIKE A FREAK FOR WANTING TO TALK TO HIM MORE OFTEN THAN EVERY 3RD WEEK OR MONTHLY?EVERYTHING I'VE READ SAYS MOST CLIENTS GO WEEKLY, BUT I DON'T THINK HE HE HAS ANY IDEA ABOUT THAT.(haha)HE ALSO SAID HE FEELS I'M OBSESSIVE ABOUT "IT"(THERAPY, PSYCHOLOGY,?????I DON'T KNOW WHAT...HE KNOWS I WANT TO LOOK INTO PSYCHOLOGY---I'M CURRENTLY IN THE MEDICAL FIELD). ANYWAY, I FEEL LIKE HE'S JUST LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE, DOESN'T UNDERSTAND ANYTHING ABOUT ME---AND DOESN'T WANT TO!!!!
SORRY FOR THE DRAMA...
Hi AJB, I want to welcome you (somewhat delayed) to the forum. I hope it's okay to jump here. I was curious what type of therapy your therapist would say he practices? And, how much experience does he have? That sounds quite odd that he would say you're "obessessive" about it.
Shrinklady
Shrinklady
hi shrinklady. thanks for the welcome. i guess he's a behavioral counselor(because of the clinic name), and he comes very highly regarded:speaker, teacher, therapist...with more than 20 years experience. i'm sure it's just me interpreting things wrong. i'm also sure he wouldn't approve of me chatting on here--just shows how obsessive i am about the therapy, i guess. anyway, i know it will all work out. our last session was very productive, but then i focus-and can't seem to get past-the last few sentences(try and tough it out...but you do have my #'s...).maybe it's just some sort of block for me or something.i'll be fine. thanks again for your interest!
I wondered if it was exhausting only because when I am feeling my deeper emotions from my childhood I get really tired. I realize that it is not the same, so I wondered if it gets tiring for you too. But I appreciate the boring part. 14 year olds get bored easy. (Did I get the age right?)
Yep, i'm 14 stil not alowed to drive! (haha) but i gues its hard to be 'inside' lots and even if i listenin to the clas and have opinions it's not lik i'm alowed to say them.
samy
p.s. also this is a horible month for us!
Yep, i'm 14
stil not alowed to drive! (haha) but i gues its hard to be 'inside' lots and even if i listenin to the clas and have opinions it's not lik i'm alowed to say them.samy
p.s. also this is a horible month for us!
Why is this such a horrible month Samy?
AJB, that’s not drama! A therapist calling a client obsessive for wanting weekly appointments seems unresponsive and would distress any of us. I hear you say that he has been highly recommended, but how does all of this make YOU feel? What do you trust? I know that’s a silly question to ask a client, because we all have trust issues and often don’t trust ourselves. But you have to be your own advocate in health care and mental health is no exception. Do you feel that you are getting YOUR needs met? Are you feeling understood and accepted for whatever you bring into the arena?
Yes, sometimes we personalize and project things even with our T, but the fact is you need to be able to feel and speak freely w/o being made to feel that something is wrong with that whether by word or look. My T always says you can’t rationalize feelings, you can’t judge them, and you can’t discount them; feelings are feelings and especially in therapy they need to be heard. You deserve to be heard.
Yes, sometimes we personalize and project things even with our T, but the fact is you need to be able to feel and speak freely w/o being made to feel that something is wrong with that whether by word or look. My T always says you can’t rationalize feelings, you can’t judge them, and you can’t discount them; feelings are feelings and especially in therapy they need to be heard. You deserve to be heard.
AJB,
I don't have much to add to what everyone else has said to you except that I agree. It sounded like a really weird thing for a T to say. And you do deserve to be heard! (Go JM!)
Sorry it has taken me so long to respond; life got interrupted by a sinus infection.
AG
I don't have much to add to what everyone else has said to you except that I agree. It sounded like a really weird thing for a T to say. And you do deserve to be heard! (Go JM!)
Sorry it has taken me so long to respond; life got interrupted by a sinus infection.
AG
[quote]Why is this such a horrible month Samy?[/quote
it too long an answer actuali and yuo probabli dont wana kno. i just say i have bad memories abut halowe'en.
samy
it too long an answer actuali and yuo probabli dont wana kno. i just say i have bad memories abut halowe'en.
samy
Last week I received the news that I don't get to see Dr. X again until the middle of next year. I'm supposed to be happy because this means I'm done, that I am clean, that my medication is correct, etc. I am happy about all of that but of course I am bummed that he is essentially out of my life now.
I'm trying not to think about him as much and when I do I keep telling myself that he and the kindness and the understanding that I received from him are always in my heart and always with me and that I will use it to continue to find things out about myself.
My T changes the subject when I bring him up.
I'm trying not to think about him as much and when I do I keep telling myself that he and the kindness and the understanding that I received from him are always in my heart and always with me and that I will use it to continue to find things out about myself.
My T changes the subject when I bring him up.
Sprinting Gal,
I'm sorry that must be really difficult. And it's ok to be happy about your health but really sad about not seeing someone so important to you. Please feel free to come here and talk about your feelings. We can at least understand how you're feeling.
As far as your T changing the subject, that doesn't sound right to me. You should be able to discuss ANYTHING you need to during your sessions. I know it might feel scary, but maybe you could ask your T directly if he is changing the subject deliberately or is that just your perception? And that you feel like you need to talk about it.
And you're right, just because you're not seeing him doesn't mean the connection is gone and you don't have with you the things he did for you.
AG
I'm sorry that must be really difficult. And it's ok to be happy about your health but really sad about not seeing someone so important to you. Please feel free to come here and talk about your feelings. We can at least understand how you're feeling.
As far as your T changing the subject, that doesn't sound right to me. You should be able to discuss ANYTHING you need to during your sessions. I know it might feel scary, but maybe you could ask your T directly if he is changing the subject deliberately or is that just your perception? And that you feel like you need to talk about it.
And you're right, just because you're not seeing him doesn't mean the connection is gone and you don't have with you the things he did for you.
AG
Hello Everyone,
I think I posted that I was back from the hospital on the wrong forum Friday, but anyway it is good to be here again among friends...My tests went well, 4 long days!!!..still have a few problems yet, but nothing life threating!!! Yeah!!!
...but I was so excited to be back at my session today with my T...2 weeks seemed like forever...well when I got there I was less than enthused He seemed to e shying away from me...I hadn't seen him since we discussed my feelings...well he usually sets on one end of the couch and me on the other, but today he was sitting down on the couch, when I sat down he moved to his chair..I know he is just being safe with boundries, but it really threw me. I couldn't think of anything to say...I had so much to talk about before i got there...He never mentioned the transference the whole time...he did ask me what I wanted to get out of therapy...He seemed distant or I was just parinoid one...I wanted to tell him many things, but i was scared to open up...is this normal??..shrinklady...have I screwed up??..I'm really distressed tonight...I have to do a 7 day self monitoring study..write down all my emotions every half an hour ad what i was doing/thinking about and how I resolved it...I was so upset when i left...and don't really know why...he was very nice...but I was going to pieces inside...went straight to Mcdonalds and got a large milkshake for the ride home...maybe next week will be different or at least better...has to be...how can I keep my sanity when I feel the least bit of rejection and it sends me to the downunder??..
SprintingGal...I hate the news for you...I would probably die...but if you are better and meds are right...it is time to move on and remember the good things...don't know that i could...but we all have to face that day i guess...I'll be thinking of you...GOOD LUCK...and hang in and don't forget to still hang uot with us...Charlotte
I think I posted that I was back from the hospital on the wrong forum Friday, but anyway it is good to be here again among friends...My tests went well, 4 long days!!!..still have a few problems yet, but nothing life threating!!! Yeah!!!
...but I was so excited to be back at my session today with my T...2 weeks seemed like forever...well when I got there I was less than enthused He seemed to e shying away from me...I hadn't seen him since we discussed my feelings...well he usually sets on one end of the couch and me on the other, but today he was sitting down on the couch, when I sat down he moved to his chair..I know he is just being safe with boundries, but it really threw me. I couldn't think of anything to say...I had so much to talk about before i got there...He never mentioned the transference the whole time...he did ask me what I wanted to get out of therapy...He seemed distant or I was just parinoid one...I wanted to tell him many things, but i was scared to open up...is this normal??..shrinklady...have I screwed up??..I'm really distressed tonight...I have to do a 7 day self monitoring study..write down all my emotions every half an hour ad what i was doing/thinking about and how I resolved it...I was so upset when i left...and don't really know why...he was very nice...but I was going to pieces inside...went straight to Mcdonalds and got a large milkshake for the ride home...maybe next week will be different or at least better...has to be...how can I keep my sanity when I feel the least bit of rejection and it sends me to the downunder??..SprintingGal...I hate the news for you...I would probably die...but if you are better and meds are right...it is time to move on and remember the good things...don't know that i could...but we all have to face that day i guess...I'll be thinking of you...GOOD LUCK...and hang in and don't forget to still hang uot with us...Charlotte
Thanks everyone...I was upset the way I got this news. In the mail. He calls me when the news is bad but in this case, when it was good, he sent it in the mail and I had to wait for an entire week to find out what happened. After everything, it would have meant a lot to me to share the good news in real time.
Sometimes I feel like if I stop thinking about everything that happened (and of course he is enmeshed in all of that) that it is going to come back and get me when I least expect it, that if I anticipate the bad it will keep it at bay. I went to him feeling fantastic with nary a transferential feeling in sight or any outward physical indication that I had cancer. I never imagined that all of this was right around the corner. So now I am afraid to get comfortable again. Anyway, I am going OT here.
As far as my T goes, she tells me to get a hobby or to write romance novels about him. Seriously! Nothing like, "why don't we examine your relationship with your dad." We have a little to the extent that I have talked about specific abusive episodes with him. But my internal rap on it has always been "how can I miss what I never had?" Clearly I miss it. I am going to just put it out there again and see what happens. Maybe her changing the subject is just my imagination. I know I am tentative about broaching the subject because I am embarrassed. I do feel guilty and silly and I know he has not always done right by me. She has told me he is not safe and I feel foolish bringing him up again and again, like I am not listening to her.
SprintingGal
Sometimes I feel like if I stop thinking about everything that happened (and of course he is enmeshed in all of that) that it is going to come back and get me when I least expect it, that if I anticipate the bad it will keep it at bay. I went to him feeling fantastic with nary a transferential feeling in sight or any outward physical indication that I had cancer. I never imagined that all of this was right around the corner. So now I am afraid to get comfortable again. Anyway, I am going OT here.
As far as my T goes, she tells me to get a hobby or to write romance novels about him. Seriously! Nothing like, "why don't we examine your relationship with your dad." We have a little to the extent that I have talked about specific abusive episodes with him. But my internal rap on it has always been "how can I miss what I never had?" Clearly I miss it. I am going to just put it out there again and see what happens. Maybe her changing the subject is just my imagination. I know I am tentative about broaching the subject because I am embarrassed. I do feel guilty and silly and I know he has not always done right by me. She has told me he is not safe and I feel foolish bringing him up again and again, like I am not listening to her.
SprintingGal
Hi SprintingGal...I'm sorry for your suffering over Dr. X. Losing someone important from our lives causes us to mourn the loss and that would be normal. I think you are grieving the loss of Dr. X who meant so much to you. And I do think loss is an appropriate subject to discuss in therapy. Perhaps you can frame it as a loss to your T so she will discuss it with you in those terms. Perhaps she is uncomfortabel with the subject but you should be able to talk about anything you want in therapy and feel safe doing so. As for her suggestion to write a romance...it could help in the way journaling helps when you need to process something. I write a lot myself and it seems to help when I'm overwhelmed with feelings. I think I would confront her with the feeling you get that she changes subjects on you. I have accused my T of doing this and he has admitted it and explained why and it helped me to know this and it opened a new discussion for us.
Good luck.
TN
Good luck.
TN
Hi Charlotte, you can post anywhere you’d like in any topic that you feel fits. It’s all the same forum, just different threads of topics. It was nice to hear from you no matter where you posted.
With the several mentionings on forum about this sort of negative reaction to transference it really seems to be a bigger problem than I ever thought. I am not getting these therapists who are shying away from the whole transference experience when most should at the very least be aware that this is a good indication that their client is primed to work through their issues. And for those who are willing to surrender themselves to it can mean so much and most T’s would welcome such an opportunity for such access to their client because it is such a great pathway into being able to help them heal.
And SprintingGal, "Get a hobby or write romance novels about him??" C’mon! Actually the writing of romance novels may not be so bad if it were to work through the feelings beneath the surface like “journaling” helps to do, but I am inclined to believe it may only fuel the fantasies if not given proper expression and direction.
I am sorry if I am reacting too strongly, but I am truly astonished and my heart goes out to all of you. I hope that you can somehow get your T to see this for what it really is and continue to express your needs. Don’t let them sweep them under the rug or shy away from them, that is probably the same offense that happened in your childhood. "HELLO-Why I am here?"
Keep up the dialogue and let them squirm!
Shrinklady, (I know you must be extremely busy) but what do you make of this?? I for one am fumed at the feelings of rejection and confusion this leaves in the clients who are trying to work with it and understand it.
JM
With the several mentionings on forum about this sort of negative reaction to transference it really seems to be a bigger problem than I ever thought. I am not getting these therapists who are shying away from the whole transference experience when most should at the very least be aware that this is a good indication that their client is primed to work through their issues. And for those who are willing to surrender themselves to it can mean so much and most T’s would welcome such an opportunity for such access to their client because it is such a great pathway into being able to help them heal.
And SprintingGal, "Get a hobby or write romance novels about him??" C’mon! Actually the writing of romance novels may not be so bad if it were to work through the feelings beneath the surface like “journaling” helps to do, but I am inclined to believe it may only fuel the fantasies if not given proper expression and direction.
I am sorry if I am reacting too strongly, but I am truly astonished and my heart goes out to all of you. I hope that you can somehow get your T to see this for what it really is and continue to express your needs. Don’t let them sweep them under the rug or shy away from them, that is probably the same offense that happened in your childhood. "HELLO-Why I am here?"
Keep up the dialogue and let them squirm!
Shrinklady, (I know you must be extremely busy) but what do you make of this?? I for one am fumed at the feelings of rejection and confusion this leaves in the clients who are trying to work with it and understand it.
JM
SprintingGal,
Of course you do. You miss it because we were designed to need a secure attachment base from which we can experience the world, and move, and grow and learn, and flourish. Without it we develop “insecure attachments” and from there our whole being is out of kilter.
Good for you for being so brave and “putting it out there again.” I hope you don’t become disillusioned by her reaction. The fact that you are so brave and determined speaks well of your ability to heal when given the opportunity to develop a secure base with your T.
I'm impressed!
JM
quote:But my internal rap on it has always been "how can I miss what I never had?" Clearly I miss it.
Of course you do. You miss it because we were designed to need a secure attachment base from which we can experience the world, and move, and grow and learn, and flourish. Without it we develop “insecure attachments” and from there our whole being is out of kilter.
Good for you for being so brave and “putting it out there again.” I hope you don’t become disillusioned by her reaction. The fact that you are so brave and determined speaks well of your ability to heal when given the opportunity to develop a secure base with your T.
I'm impressed!
JM
I agree with JM, there is NO subject your therapist should shy away from; the whole point of therapy is to be able to express all of your feelings and have them accepted which is so different than what happened to most of us growing up.
I do fear that there are a lot more therapists who can't handle transference than should possibly be practicing. I've heard some real horror stories from other people in therapy. And I know my T has commented a number of times about how bad it is when a T can't carry through and once again the client is left hanging. When I talked to him about googling him he actually told me about a T that told his client he had to end therapy with her because he was moving away even though he wasn't. I'm very grateful that my T can handle this as well as he does.
I think both of you (Sprinting Gal and Charlotte) need to talk directly to your therapists about how you feel about there being taboo subjects in therapy. If there's a subject they feel uncomfortable hearing about from you, that's THEIR problem and responsibility, not YOURS. Yes, clear boundaries are necessary, but so is being emotionally available to you. Moving away from you in session from where he used to sit is conveying the opposite message.
AG
I do fear that there are a lot more therapists who can't handle transference than should possibly be practicing. I've heard some real horror stories from other people in therapy. And I know my T has commented a number of times about how bad it is when a T can't carry through and once again the client is left hanging. When I talked to him about googling him he actually told me about a T that told his client he had to end therapy with her because he was moving away even though he wasn't. I'm very grateful that my T can handle this as well as he does.
I think both of you (Sprinting Gal and Charlotte) need to talk directly to your therapists about how you feel about there being taboo subjects in therapy. If there's a subject they feel uncomfortable hearing about from you, that's THEIR problem and responsibility, not YOURS. Yes, clear boundaries are necessary, but so is being emotionally available to you. Moving away from you in session from where he used to sit is conveying the opposite message.
AG
In reflecting back to when I first admitted to my T that I was “suffering” from transference (because that is what it feels like) her initial response, because I was squirming and fidgeting and beating around the bush for at least 35 minutes before I spit it out, was something like, “Oh THAT’s all” and a laughter of relief that I hadn’t told her that I was dying or something like that. (All though I wished I could at that moment.) Our next several sessions were not comfortable for me and I don’t think that there was anything she could have said or done to put me at ease any more than she tried. I just had to wait it out and experience her willingness to “still be there” and not abandon me or reject me for the raw feelings I exposed. It was not an easy part of the transition, but eventually it did level off and I found that her understanding of transference is just what it should be and in time I realized that I needed to stop resisting it and work with it. The more I worked with it the more I could understand its meaning, its depth, width, and breadth. But at first, I did project my own discomforts with transference onto my T, sometimes thinking that she was uncomfortable with it herself. Now I know she is not and I don’t feel like I “suffer” as much as I used to.
So I hope that all of you, Charlotte, SprintingGal, AJB and anyone else that is experiencing this frustration will be able to work it out too. I think all of you deserve a medal for your valiant efforts to work this out despite its frustrations.
Best Regards,
JM
So I hope that all of you, Charlotte, SprintingGal, AJB and anyone else that is experiencing this frustration will be able to work it out too. I think all of you deserve a medal for your valiant efforts to work this out despite its frustrations.
Best Regards,
JM
Hello SprintingGal, ABJ and Charlotte, I want to echo Just Me's comments about challenging your T's responses. An old friend of mine once told me she took her therapy skills to a completely different level because she had had an experienced client who called her on stuff all the time. She is forever grateful for that client she says because she's so much more attuned to her clients today.
What's important of course, is that my friend rose to the challenge...not putting it back on the client.
The kind of responses by your T's don't surprise me. It seems in all your situations, there's an elephant sitting in the room and you are the only one willing to bring it up.
Too many therapists sit safely back with their manualized therapies too afraid to get into the more intense emotional work. They are fine if the client is emotional but oh my goodness, they don't like it when they are being called into working it through or expressing it themselves. (I find it hard myself but I also know it's part of my job.)
That's the sense I got. Your therapists are uncomfortable and are thinking they are not being seen as they try to avoid the obvious.
I'm not blaming them. The profession should be more accountable. Therapy needs to be more collaborative. There are some leaders in the field who are trying by the way...getting therapists to ask for direct feedback after each session. Therapists are encouraged by the way, to get consultation when they are unsure how to proceed with a client. It's a question you can ask.
And, I'll grant you, bringing up relational stuff isn't easy being a client myself. In fact, I was telling my T about your posts and on her suggestion we started talking about our relationship...wouldn't you know it, I got triggered and my mind went swirling...
Maybe with baby steps you can eventually get your therapist on board. Remember, you are the consumer. You're paying for therapy and can bring up what you want. If you have a good connection with your T, it would be worth it to do so...to speak what is there, but not spoken. It's a powerful way to learn.
I'm sure there's lots more to be said on the subject. Take care,
Shrinklady
What's important of course, is that my friend rose to the challenge...not putting it back on the client.
The kind of responses by your T's don't surprise me. It seems in all your situations, there's an elephant sitting in the room and you are the only one willing to bring it up.
Too many therapists sit safely back with their manualized therapies too afraid to get into the more intense emotional work. They are fine if the client is emotional but oh my goodness, they don't like it when they are being called into working it through or expressing it themselves. (I find it hard myself but I also know it's part of my job.)
That's the sense I got. Your therapists are uncomfortable and are thinking they are not being seen as they try to avoid the obvious.
I'm not blaming them. The profession should be more accountable. Therapy needs to be more collaborative. There are some leaders in the field who are trying by the way...getting therapists to ask for direct feedback after each session. Therapists are encouraged by the way, to get consultation when they are unsure how to proceed with a client. It's a question you can ask.
And, I'll grant you, bringing up relational stuff isn't easy being a client myself. In fact, I was telling my T about your posts and on her suggestion we started talking about our relationship...wouldn't you know it, I got triggered and my mind went swirling...
Maybe with baby steps you can eventually get your therapist on board. Remember, you are the consumer. You're paying for therapy and can bring up what you want. If you have a good connection with your T, it would be worth it to do so...to speak what is there, but not spoken. It's a powerful way to learn.
I'm sure there's lots more to be said on the subject. Take care,
Shrinklady
Shrinklady,
Thanks for talking about what happened in your therapy, your being open about how it feels from both sides of the couch is really affirming.
One of the things I have really appreciated about my T in dealing with the transference is how open he has been to talking about our relationship (from every possible aspect). Most of our sessions start in talking about us and end up with me talking about my past. He is my emotional road map. The feelings and issues that come up with him, are exactly the very issues that I need to process.
He has an incredible ability to stay very calm, non-defensive and open no matter what I'm talking to him about. I remember once, early on in our work, his telling me that ALL of my emotions were welcome in his office, that nothing was out of bounds or too scary to discuss. Because SO much could not be spoken about in my family of origin, this was incredibly powerful. And his continuing to be present and stay with me, no matter what, is the thing that is so powerfully healing about the relationship.
I once thanked him for the fact that he welcomed all my feelings and never once had he denigrated me for having any of them. His response? "That's all you ever needed." Priceless.
AG
Thanks for talking about what happened in your therapy, your being open about how it feels from both sides of the couch is really affirming.
One of the things I have really appreciated about my T in dealing with the transference is how open he has been to talking about our relationship (from every possible aspect). Most of our sessions start in talking about us and end up with me talking about my past. He is my emotional road map. The feelings and issues that come up with him, are exactly the very issues that I need to process.
He has an incredible ability to stay very calm, non-defensive and open no matter what I'm talking to him about. I remember once, early on in our work, his telling me that ALL of my emotions were welcome in his office, that nothing was out of bounds or too scary to discuss. Because SO much could not be spoken about in my family of origin, this was incredibly powerful. And his continuing to be present and stay with me, no matter what, is the thing that is so powerfully healing about the relationship.
I once thanked him for the fact that he welcomed all my feelings and never once had he denigrated me for having any of them. His response? "That's all you ever needed." Priceless.
AG
When does transference become obsession??
The reason I ask is because I have too much time on my hands today and I am once again surfing the web on transference. I haven’t done that since I found this site and all I needed to know right here. Now I wish I hadn’t because there is so much crap out there. Anyway, I see that some Psychologists have written pages that give a negative slant to transference or the potential of it becoming obsessive. One quote that I absolutely hate from a Psychologist is, “I avoid clients who are just oozing with transference.” That’s probably better for the client anyway, don’t ya think?
I struggle with feeling obsessive at times, but am I? I want to feel FREE to continue to express myself-no holds barred, but sometimes it is a bit frightening to worry if it is ever crossing the line. (Gee I wonder if anyone else feels that way-LOL) Many clients admit that we think of our T’s all the time, fantasize about them, call them between sessions, discuss them and our sessions on forum, Google them, and some have even driven by their homes for curiosity sake. When does it become too much? Obviously stalking is wrong and indicates some sort of “threatening situation,” so that is not what I am talking about.
Sometimes transference can FEEL obsessive-especially when your T has been out of town for 2 weeks…(In the words of Charlie Brown, “UGH!”)
Anyway, just wondering how anyone else feels about this?
JM
The reason I ask is because I have too much time on my hands today and I am once again surfing the web on transference. I haven’t done that since I found this site and all I needed to know right here. Now I wish I hadn’t because there is so much crap out there. Anyway, I see that some Psychologists have written pages that give a negative slant to transference or the potential of it becoming obsessive. One quote that I absolutely hate from a Psychologist is, “I avoid clients who are just oozing with transference.” That’s probably better for the client anyway, don’t ya think?
I struggle with feeling obsessive at times, but am I? I want to feel FREE to continue to express myself-no holds barred, but sometimes it is a bit frightening to worry if it is ever crossing the line. (Gee I wonder if anyone else feels that way-LOL) Many clients admit that we think of our T’s all the time, fantasize about them, call them between sessions, discuss them and our sessions on forum, Google them, and some have even driven by their homes for curiosity sake. When does it become too much? Obviously stalking is wrong and indicates some sort of “threatening situation,” so that is not what I am talking about.
Sometimes transference can FEEL obsessive-especially when your T has been out of town for 2 weeks…(In the words of Charlie Brown, “UGH!”)
Anyway, just wondering how anyone else feels about this?
JM
JM,
I do the same thing- google transference, look for books about it, etc. When I first finally had a name for this little issue, I did it a lot but now I only do it every couple of weeks now. Yesterday was one of those days. My T hates it that I do this.
Ha! "I avoid clients oozing with transference potential." I know exactly where you read that and yes, I had very much the same reaction. I thought, gee buddy, it sounds like you need some additional training!
As far as it getting obsessive, there obviously is a line but I don't think anyone here has crossed it. I think having our transference object embedded in our brains and on our minds a lot is part of it. Wanting to see where your T lives and only going by once is not obsessive, just curiosity. I think it only becomes obsessive when it becomes harmful, when it takes over your life, interferes with daily functioning, etc.
I do the same thing- google transference, look for books about it, etc. When I first finally had a name for this little issue, I did it a lot but now I only do it every couple of weeks now. Yesterday was one of those days. My T hates it that I do this.
Ha! "I avoid clients oozing with transference potential." I know exactly where you read that and yes, I had very much the same reaction. I thought, gee buddy, it sounds like you need some additional training!
As far as it getting obsessive, there obviously is a line but I don't think anyone here has crossed it. I think having our transference object embedded in our brains and on our minds a lot is part of it. Wanting to see where your T lives and only going by once is not obsessive, just curiosity. I think it only becomes obsessive when it becomes harmful, when it takes over your life, interferes with daily functioning, etc.
Hi JM,
Sit down, relax, have a cup of tea, I feel a long post coming on.
I think the negative view of transference dates back to before Attachment theory really started to catch on. I think that Attachment theory gave therapists the ability to really understand what was going on when a patient developed these feelings. So instead of seeing it as resistance, which is more common to a psychoanalytic view, more recently I think it is seen as the powerful tool it can be in the hands of a skilled therapist.
I'm placing bets that the psychologist quoted above doesn't have to run into the problem very often. Who could get close enough to form deep feelings for someone who talks that way about clients. It's so deeply disrepectful.
OK, now onto obsession. I have a number of comments (shocked, aren't you?).
1) Attachment issues come with a great deal of primitive, visceral emotions. When we're children staying with our attachment figure is literally a matter of life and death. We're biologically hard-wired to pursue the relationship at all costs. So as an adult trying to form a secure attachment, very primitive intense emotions are evoked. If we feel our relationship with our therapist is threatened, it can literally feel like our life is threatened. Hence the incredible intensity we have about the relationship and why it looms so important. Would you call a one year old who doesn't want to be separated from his mother obsessive?
2. I totally understand you worrying about it, I know I have. Sometimes it feels like I think about nothing else. If I admitted to all my behaviors (come to think of it I've fessed up about most of them here) it can look pretty crazy. One of the reasons I decided to talk to my T about finding his Grandaughter's blog was that when I found it, I really felt like I was crossing a line reading it, but I couldn't stop myself. I read every single entry, nine months worth, the whole time thinking this is really, really wrong. I can remember being worried I was going to cross the line into stalking and my T would have to send me away. So I decided to talk to him about it. One of the most surprising things he said to me as we discussed it was "How can I not understand you wanting to know more about my life? I really understand people who drive by my home or call my home number." Honestly, his reaction was pretty much "and you're getting upset about a little googling?"
3 So I think the real line that divides the intensity of therapy from a full blown obession is two fold. First, do you talk to your therapist about the behaviors? I haven't told my T everything I've done, but he's knows I've googled him, I told him that I think about him all the time, that it's difficult to make it between sessions because I miss him so much, I want to belong to him in some way, daughter, grandaughter, niece, I'll take anything just to be part of his life. That I really hate his family sometimes because they get to know him in a way I never will. That I am angry that he knows exactly what I want from him (which is a real neat trick because I can't really pin it down) and even why its so important but he still says no. I've actually started crying while shaking his hand at the end of a session and told him it was really hard to leave him. (Now, don't the rest of you feel better about what you've been doing? ) I think that as long as you're talking about the feelings then they're part of therapy and not just a fixation. Which leads to what I think is the most important criteria.
4. Are you still doing therapy? I've known woman dealing with transference issues who have totally focused on the relationship to the exclusion of therapy. Their goal is to move the relationship beyond a theraputic one. They basically go to therapy JUST so they can spend time with their T. (Don't get me wrong, I think one of the positive effects of feeling this way is that it gives you a reason to want to go. Therapy can be painful, difficult and confusing at times; you have to face down your worst fears and sometimes all of that can make you run away. Having these kinds of feelings for your T can pull you towards the therapy. I may not like what I have to do but at least I adore the person I have to do it with.) The therapy has ceased because they're so focused on how their therapist feels about them, and what will it take to get him/her to admit their feelings. If you are respecting the boundaries ( a good example, you have not flown off to wherever your T is) no matter how frustrating and continuing to work in therapy to get better than I don't think it's an obsession.
From what I can tell, the people who are posting on this forum struggling with these feelings are all actively pursuing their therapy, not their therapists.
Really fantastic question. (Of course, you're probably sorry you've asked it after having to wade through this post!)
As crazy as this can feel, which is pretty crazy, I really think we're fundamentally ok.
Just tightening some screws and cracking some nuts.
AG
Sit down, relax, have a cup of tea, I feel a long post coming on.
I think the negative view of transference dates back to before Attachment theory really started to catch on. I think that Attachment theory gave therapists the ability to really understand what was going on when a patient developed these feelings. So instead of seeing it as resistance, which is more common to a psychoanalytic view, more recently I think it is seen as the powerful tool it can be in the hands of a skilled therapist.
quote:One quote that I absolutely hate from a Psychologist is, “I avoid clients who are just oozing with transference.” That’s probably better for the client anyway, don’t ya think?d
I'm placing bets that the psychologist quoted above doesn't have to run into the problem very often. Who could get close enough to form deep feelings for someone who talks that way about clients. It's so deeply disrepectful.
OK, now onto obsession. I have a number of comments (shocked, aren't you?).
1) Attachment issues come with a great deal of primitive, visceral emotions. When we're children staying with our attachment figure is literally a matter of life and death. We're biologically hard-wired to pursue the relationship at all costs. So as an adult trying to form a secure attachment, very primitive intense emotions are evoked. If we feel our relationship with our therapist is threatened, it can literally feel like our life is threatened. Hence the incredible intensity we have about the relationship and why it looms so important. Would you call a one year old who doesn't want to be separated from his mother obsessive?
2. I totally understand you worrying about it, I know I have. Sometimes it feels like I think about nothing else. If I admitted to all my behaviors (come to think of it I've fessed up about most of them here) it can look pretty crazy. One of the reasons I decided to talk to my T about finding his Grandaughter's blog was that when I found it, I really felt like I was crossing a line reading it, but I couldn't stop myself. I read every single entry, nine months worth, the whole time thinking this is really, really wrong. I can remember being worried I was going to cross the line into stalking and my T would have to send me away. So I decided to talk to him about it. One of the most surprising things he said to me as we discussed it was "How can I not understand you wanting to know more about my life? I really understand people who drive by my home or call my home number." Honestly, his reaction was pretty much "and you're getting upset about a little googling?"
3 So I think the real line that divides the intensity of therapy from a full blown obession is two fold. First, do you talk to your therapist about the behaviors? I haven't told my T everything I've done, but he's knows I've googled him, I told him that I think about him all the time, that it's difficult to make it between sessions because I miss him so much, I want to belong to him in some way, daughter, grandaughter, niece, I'll take anything just to be part of his life. That I really hate his family sometimes because they get to know him in a way I never will. That I am angry that he knows exactly what I want from him (which is a real neat trick because I can't really pin it down) and even why its so important but he still says no. I've actually started crying while shaking his hand at the end of a session and told him it was really hard to leave him. (Now, don't the rest of you feel better about what you've been doing?
) I think that as long as you're talking about the feelings then they're part of therapy and not just a fixation. Which leads to what I think is the most important criteria.4. Are you still doing therapy? I've known woman dealing with transference issues who have totally focused on the relationship to the exclusion of therapy. Their goal is to move the relationship beyond a theraputic one. They basically go to therapy JUST so they can spend time with their T. (Don't get me wrong, I think one of the positive effects of feeling this way is that it gives you a reason to want to go. Therapy can be painful, difficult and confusing at times; you have to face down your worst fears and sometimes all of that can make you run away. Having these kinds of feelings for your T can pull you towards the therapy. I may not like what I have to do but at least I adore the person I have to do it with.) The therapy has ceased because they're so focused on how their therapist feels about them, and what will it take to get him/her to admit their feelings. If you are respecting the boundaries ( a good example, you have not flown off to wherever your T is
) no matter how frustrating and continuing to work in therapy to get better than I don't think it's an obsession. From what I can tell, the people who are posting on this forum struggling with these feelings are all actively pursuing their therapy, not their therapists.
Really fantastic question. (Of course, you're probably sorry you've asked it after having to wade through this post!)
As crazy as this can feel, which is pretty crazy, I really think we're fundamentally ok.
Just tightening some screws and cracking some nuts.
AG
Transference can be really scary when you don't know what it is. I have experienced it with many different people in my life but since I am an emotionally restricted person I have always held it in and suffered in silence. I guess I just couldn't let common sense get the best of me. I would always turn the tables on myself, asking if whatever I do and say to them would creep me out. If yes then I seriously held back. So, of course when this happened with my T I was doing everything in my power to suppress it. I almost quit because I just couldn't. It was reading Shrinklady's article that finally clued me in to what was going on then I finally felt comfortable enough to ask my T about it. Her response was very casual but welcoming. "Everybody does it all the time so some degree. Recognizing and owning it is what keeps it in check." She went on to explain that she welcomes in in therapy because of all the stuff that has already been said by AG and JM. Needless to say I was pretty miffed (and still am a little sometimes) that she didn't warn me that this could happen and when it became obvious that is was happening she still didn't say anything. If I hadn't fount SL's article I might still be in the dark.
So, it seems that the two camps like to keep it a secret from us clients to either avoid dealing with it or to encourage it to happen. Either way the client doesn't know which way their T leans until they are already in the thick of it and if their T doesn't "go there" then what? It would be very hard to break the attachment and find a new T. It just doesn't seem fair or helpful. I think though that a T's ability to handle transference well has a lot to do with whether or not they have done their own "work" (therapy) and if they have experienced it for themselves. That is one thing I have learned, the really good T have done their own work and continue to do so. I would be curious to know if SG, AJB, and Charlotte's Ts have ever done their own therapy. You know you can ask them that too. I think is a reasonable question. You wouldn't pay good money for food from a chef who has never tasted their own cooking, right?
So, it seems that the two camps like to keep it a secret from us clients to either avoid dealing with it or to encourage it to happen. Either way the client doesn't know which way their T leans until they are already in the thick of it and if their T doesn't "go there" then what? It would be very hard to break the attachment and find a new T. It just doesn't seem fair or helpful. I think though that a T's ability to handle transference well has a lot to do with whether or not they have done their own "work" (therapy) and if they have experienced it for themselves. That is one thing I have learned, the really good T have done their own work and continue to do so. I would be curious to know if SG, AJB, and Charlotte's Ts have ever done their own therapy. You know you can ask them that too. I think is a reasonable question. You wouldn't pay good money for food from a chef who has never tasted their own cooking, right?
quote:I would be curious to know if SG, AJB, and Charlotte's Ts have ever done their own therapy. You know you can ask them that too
RIVER:
thanks for the reassurance. idon't think i could ask my T if he has done therapy. i would be terrified to. maybe i am scared he will think i'm "too obsessive" and refer me to someone else. i don't think i could handle that. i have mentioned transference to him before. he just looked down for a second with a modest smile, and I changed the subject. but he brought it up later during that session and asked me what i thought that was about. i said i guess because he is so "nice" to me. it was very difficult for me to talk about, so i didn't talk much, and was certainly withdrawn, so he didn't push it. in recounting all this to you, i guess he's really a good therapist after all(LOL).
quote:Originally posted by Just Me:
And SprintingGal, "Get a hobby or write romance novels about him??" C’mon! Actually the writing of romance novels may not be so bad if it were to work through the feelings beneath the surface like “journaling” helps to do, but I am inclined to believe it may only fuel the fantasies if not given proper expression and direction.
I do journal about him. TONS. I write letters to him in my journal sometimes when I feel like I wish he were there to talk to in addition to arbitrary entries about what I think about him that day and how I feel about it. I have also written creatively as well and it did take a lot of the sexual charge out of it for me.
But get a hobby? I don't only think of him because I have "too much time on my hands." I am naturally a thoughtful, inquisitive person who is curious about things. When I don't understand something, I seek out all the information on it that I can. What is wrong with that?
Yesterday I found some excerpts from a book by David Richo called, "When the Past is Present." I don't know if it is any good, but this struck a huge chord with me:
quote:One example of transference is a patient falling in love with her physician. He is kind, understanding, reliable, and genuinely concerned about her. These are all the qualities she wished her father would have had. The patient might later marry this doctor and find out, as time goes by, that he is not what she imagined. Her conscious mind and heart believed she had found a replacement for her father. Her deep psyche, her unconscious, was quite adept at finding instead a substitute for her father. The doctor-husband turned out later in the relationship to be like dad after all, unavailable, unable to listen. The bond began with a transferred hope but became a transferred replay.
A transferred replay. Dr. X is not my first transference experience but they all ended up being unavailable just like my own dad. Spooky...
WellI plan to ask my T what he thinks about my transference now that he has had a few weeks to think about it...and I also plan to ask him if he ever gave his own therapy...I want him to know that I am not a bimbo and I can see thru the cracks. I also plan to tell him that he doesn't have to run from me (move away), because I am not going to jump his bones....(but the thought has crossed my mine) LOL!! He made me weekly appointments thru the end of the year, so he evidently is not considering throwing me out...I called his office today (bad time after lunch) and HE actually called back to see if I was alright....so it can't be to bad for him...Thanks for all the info tonight...I have also googled tranference, it is way out there on some sites....I also looked my T up on the computer...and tried to get his address/phone #...just to ride by somtime to see if he really seemed happy...I guess we all are really oncessed in our own ways.. gotta run..Charlotte
quote:Originally posted by SprintingGal:
But get a hobby? I don't only think of him because I have "too much time on my hands." I am naturally a thoughtful, inquisitive person who is curious about things. When I don't understand something, I seek out all the information on it that I can. What is wrong with that?
Absolutely nothing is wrong with that. I do the same thing but it is at times when I am so “wrapped up in it” myself that I personally feel obsessive. Not that it is obsessive because I would tell someone else that it is not. But sometimes I have a hard time hearing my own voice because my father’s critical voice is so loud. I was just looking for some counterbalance to my own mixed emotions. (someone out there please tell me I’m not obsessive
) I am naturally inquisitive too and a self proclaimed information junkie. The Internet can be a dangerous place and my T has also “maternally warned me” to be careful how much information I accept as “truth” on the Internet. I love how she cares for me. But I assure her that I am aware that half the stuff (conservatively) is junk.
But if it weren’t for the Internet, like River, I would have never learned that what I was feeling for my T was transference let alone learned what transference was all about. It appeared that she was never going to clue me in on it so I had to do some fancy footwork and load my barrels before I could confront her. If it wasn’t for the Internet I would have never found this site or made such nice friends/acquaintances here, and I would have not yet found the courage to expose my rawest emotions and trust that it was really ok. I wonder what clients did before the Internet?? LOL
Anyway, you don’t need to have “too much time on your hands” to think of someone nor would I ever accuse anyone else of “having too much time on their hands.” I hope it didn't sound like I was doing that. I know I can go through the day as busy as a bee but somewhere, whether consciously or subconsciously, I am always thinking of my T. The only reason I said that of myself is because I seriously could not move to do anything else yesterday (though I had lots that needed to be done) because of my neck spasms. It was a self-deprecating statement as to why I was surfing the web on transference again when I have a completely useful tool right here. That is what triggered my “old” obsessive feelings I used to get when I would endlessly search for any information on transference because it is ALL I could think about then. It felt obsessive “then.”
The get a hobby part… I hope you don’t think that is my statement; I was quoting what you said in your post.
quote:Yesterday I found some excerpts from a book by David Richo called, "When the Past is Present." I don't know if it is any good, but this struck a huge chord with me:
I bet that did. It sounds like an interesting book. Let me know what you think if you ever read the whole thing. I’d be interested in reading it too if you find it helpful.
I too have experienced transference feelings for others besides my T. I didn’t know what it was at the time, but looking back I did that a lot and to be honest, I now find it reassuring to know what it was because I used to think that something was wrong with me and that people would think I was weird if they knew how I felt about them. It was usually school teachers, and once it was a friend’s mom I wished was my mom. Another time it was toward a lady for whom I babysat her son, and even in my adult life I’ve had a couple friends that evoked transference feelings for me. But I love the safety and openness of it in my therapy. (I never thought I’d hear myself say that! I love transference-HA!)-I need therapy!
quote:Hi JM,
Sit down, relax, have a cup of tea, I feel a long post coming on.
I've switched from tea to coffee and I'm still reading.
LOL-just kidding AG!I am amazed that no matter how much I already know this stuff; to hear you or someone else remind me always makes such a difference. –Thanks. Those primitive emotions can be very difficult for someone like me who “intellectualizes everything” to a fault. My dad taught me that very well to intellectualize or rationalize my emotions. He’d say things like; “You should know better than to feel that way!” Honestly! Boy I’d like to give him a piece of my mind! Actually I do that sometimes. He is much more willing to listen to me now that I know how to stand up for myself. Believe it or not he has even replied in return, “You’re right babe, I never thought about it that way.” (–You’re telling me!) My siblings are even amazed at how I can get him to reason sometimes, but then he forgets the conversation and goes right back to his old patterns. But the man is 83 years old, what more can I expect?
So I just have to keep telling myself “it’s limbic!”
quote:( a good example, you have not flown off to wherever your T is )
How can you be so sure??
(She asks while muffling the sound of the flight attendants pre-flight instructions)
quote:How can you be so sure??
(She asks while muffling the sound of the flight attendants pre-flight instructions)
Oh, please you would have been gone a week ago!
(Also just kidding, that was really funny!)I totally understand that tendency to intellectualize this stuff. It would be so less messy to be able to "think" our way out of it. I, for one, would be a LOT more comfortable. And I've lost track of how many times my T has had to explain this. It's gotten to the point that when one of us says "I know" we both just crack up. I am impressed though, that you've learned to get through to your dad, that's pretty amazing.
I'm going to go get some coffee, hopefully you didn't finish all of it.
AG
quote:A transferred replay. Dr. X is not my first transference experience but they all ended up being unavailable just like my own dad. Spooky...
Hi Sprinting Gal,
There's actually a really reasonable explanation for why that would keep happening. Below is a passage from The General Theory of Love by Thomas Lewis pg. 160-161 in the paperback edition. (yes, I am obsessed with that book.
)"Zeroing in on how to love goes hand in hand with whom. A baby strives to tune in with his parents, but he cannot judge their goodness. He attaches to whoever is there, with the unconditional fixity we profess to require of later attachments: for better or worse; for richer, for poorer; in sickness and in health. Attachment is not a critic; a child adores his mother's face, and he runs to her whether she is pretty or plain. And he prefers the emotional patterns of the family he knows, regardless of its objective merits. As an adult his heart will lean toward these outlines. The closer a potential mate matches his prototypes, the more enticed and entranced he will be -- the more he will feel that here, at last, with this person, he belongs."
[SNIP}
"A relationship that strays from one's prototype is limbically equivalent to isolation. Loneliness outweighs most pain. These two facts collude to produce one of love's common and initially baffling quirks: most people will choose misery with a partner their limbic brain recognizes over the stagnant pleasure of a "nice" relationship with someone their attachment mechanisms cannot detect."
I think one of the main points of therapy is to "re-wire" your limbic brain and attachement mechanisms through your relationship with your therapist so that a healthy relationship, someone who can provide what you need, is "visible" to you and feels like home.
AG
Charlotte,
I'm glad you're going to talk to your T about the transference, it's best not to leave stuff unspoken in therapy, it tends to muddy the waters. I'm glad to hear he called you back also, he certainly sounds like he's involved.
AG
I'm glad you're going to talk to your T about the transference, it's best not to leave stuff unspoken in therapy, it tends to muddy the waters. I'm glad to hear he called you back also, he certainly sounds like he's involved.
AG
Shrinklady... I call my T on stuff all the time. He admits that I'm the only patient that does. Many of his patients are teens and children so he does not run into this with them. We have a good relationship though and I think I challenge him and push him out of his comfort zone. He does rise to the occasion most time. In fact, he has told me that I make him a better psychologist. I took that as enormous compliment.
True North
True North
Hi True North,
I know I’m not Shrinklady, but I just wanted to comment on how that IS an enormous compliment. Good for you for challenging your T to be the best that he can be. I believe that the therapeutic relationship should be approached as an opportunity for growth by both parties involved: Personally for us the clients, and professionally for the therapist. It is wonderful to have that kind of relationship; otherwise I am afraid it may become rather stagnant.
JM
I know I’m not Shrinklady, but I just wanted to comment on how that IS an enormous compliment. Good for you for challenging your T to be the best that he can be.
I believe that the therapeutic relationship should be approached as an opportunity for growth by both parties involved: Personally for us the clients, and professionally for the therapist. It is wonderful to have that kind of relationship; otherwise I am afraid it may become rather stagnant. JM
i duno abut transference stuf, but i kno i love me T and her loves me!
samy
p.s. i tinkin we oughta start a new one caled transference part 2 cuz this is getin rathr long.
samy
p.s. i tinkin we oughta start a new one caled transference part 2 cuz this is getin rathr long.
Isn’t that just the best love? It is for me anyway. I love my T too. How are you doing with cutting down on your T time? I hope it is going ok for you, I know it must be hard.