STRM
I have two things to say that might help.

1) My T does so much of this stuff but has never heard of either Diane Fosha (founder of the AEDP method) or AEDP. So I think experienced Ts who have learned what worked operate this way.

2) I've read a lot of AEDP articles and one of the strongest tenets of this type of therapy is that the therapist must be authentic, real and open in order for this to work. It needs to be real and come from the Ts authentic feelings to work. So I really believe that what you see in your T is very real, she may be using a tool but the purpose of the tool is to channel her very real care for you.

I'm sorry, I didn't intend to undermine your faith in your T, especially with her away. I have no doubt about your Ts very real feelings for you.

AG

AG,

No apology necessary!! It isn't the article, it isn't you, it's me!

wow, quite a read, thanks ag. really good, i like that he gave specific examples of what the words are..the cookbook...

much to reflect over, and i realize now the dbt gal did ask alot of these type questions. one, at the end, just 'how are you feeling right now' and wow, it blew me away, and i realize now i was numb. i couldn't feel anything. traumatic at the time, tears, i couldn't feel. it was too bright in the room, i was too exposed, too vulnerable, and i went numb. gone.

she seems to have pretty good knowledge about what was said in this article.

i really like when they can talk to you in these ways, it seems 'very therapuetic'...obviously!!

thanks for your continued diligence in putting good info up here, ag. jill

Thanks for posting the article, AG.

I didn’t agree with a lot of the article, based on my experience in therapy.

Most of it is very different from my therapy. My T doesn’t do most of the things that the article talks about. He would never say anything like, “me too” or “We’re in the same boat”. Not his style.

Also, I felt like the article praised self-disclosure way too much as the key to a secure attachment. I think that my T and I have a secure, healthy relationship, and he doesn’t self-disclose at all.

Just my opinion- totally based on the type of therapy I’m in.

Again, thanks for posting, I always like hearing about different styles of therapy.

Holy Moly- AG,
This article explains what I call "Marks magic" This is exactly my T.
I am still going through it.
Thanks,
Mayo

Being very familiar with Diana Fosha and the AEDP process I read this new article with interest. The most interesting thing I took from this was that THIS is exactly what my T was doing with me.. the entire description of the right brain to right brain communication...he did that so well along with self-disclosure used to directly benefit me. He just couldn't accept that he was doing many things so right for me because he didn't understand the clinical theory and research behind what he would instinctively do for me. But it's all right there in that article. I'm so regretful that he could not see how good he really is...

TN

Thanks for posting the link to that article, AG.

TN, part of what you said brought back some thoughts about my former T:

quote:

True North:
The most interesting thing I took from this was that THIS is exactly what my T was doing with me...*snip*...he didn't understand the clinical theory and research behind what he would instinctively do for me.

I remember describing to my former T some examples of how I saw him "changing" me in right-brain ways. I was so excited about it...I wish he would have seen it that way, too. He didn't understand the theory and research but I could tell he was figuring it out for himself. It was so weird how he "instinctively" got so many things right. It seems as though as soon as he started "thinking" about it, that's when he'd start acting in ways that were NOT helpful to the therapy, apparently out of fear. We were both afraid in there. I wonder how many misunderstandings and missteps could be traced back to someone's fears?

SG

quote:

It was so weird how he "instinctively" got so many things right. It seems as though as soon as he started "thinking" about it, that's when he'd start acting in ways that were NOT helpful to the therapy, apparently out of fear.

SG, I could have written this myself. I always said that when my T started to think about things too much he would get scared and then act inconsistently which would then scare me too and I would back away.

So very sad.

TN

True North & Strummergirl:

What you two are talking about with T’s acting intuitive reminds me of this quote by Carl Rogers from his book A Way of Being. I think it explains intuitive knowledge, and embracing it, beautifully.


“I find that when I am closest to my inner, intuitive self, when I am somehow in touch with the unknown in me, when perhaps I am in a slightly altered state of consciousness, then whatever I do seems to be fully healing. Then, simply my presence is releasing and helpful to the other. There is nothing I can do to force this experience, but when I can relax and be close to the transcendental core in me, then I may behave in strange and impulsive ways in the relationship, ways which I cannot justify rationally, which have nothing to do with my thought process. But these strange behaviors turn out to be right, in some odd way, it seems that my inner spirit has reached out and touched the inner sprit of the other. Our relationship transcends itself and becomes part of something bigger. Profound growth and healing and energy are present.” Pg. 129


I also remember Irvin Yalom talking about that what makes a good therapist is not the protocols or guidelines that therapists abide by, but the little extras that they throw in when no one’s looking. He related it back to a story about cooking lessons- I could try and find it, I think it was in a foreword that he wrote.

I agree, it’s sad that some T’s can’t seem to accept that in themselves for whatever reason- it’s probably harder than it looks!
-M

maclove, i would love to read what you are talking about. i am not sure that i get all of this, but i would like to. the little subtle things that aren't protocol. i know things i do that tell alot, little asides i say, under my breathe, perhaps, that t1 would pick up on and call to my attention that they were significant. i wonder what their things they do that do that, and if i have experienced that in therapy. sometimes, one would say something that made me think they thought about me after hours...these little things??

that slightly altered state of conciousness that the t gets in?? i don't think i have ever seen that, i have myself been in many modes of conciousness, but them? never.

interesting thread, jill

Just in my opinion and personal interpretation of what Mac quoted (and I've never read the book, so take this with a grain of salt), I think that the altered state of consciousness is related to attunement...being so completely in sync with the client's emotions that it is almost like an "altered state of consciousness." From that place a therapist can give to the client what he/she needs and wants in that moment. I think this is also a delicate place for a therapist, because they have to be careful not to completely take on our emotions as their own but to still take note, perhaps interpret, and give feedback (whether that be verbal or nonverbal or both). The altered states of consciousness we as clients tend to go into are normally defense mechanisms, and this is certainly not a defense mechanism.

Well AG,
I have finished the article and found it amazing! Altered state- the healing state that Rogers (Thanks Maclove- love Rogers, I have the book- On becoming a Person by Carl)talks about that, and the article calls it dydactic regulation (something like that) is that not the same as Limbic Resonance- By Lewis? (A General Theory of Love)I see much of what the article talks about- Self Disclosure for the purpose of metacognitive processing and Rogers talks about- "being real, being authentic" to the client as much the same.
Anyway, thanks. Twas wonderful, educational and insightful. (I found myself trying to figure out my attachment style, with no success of course. And my T never speaks of labels, never.
Oh, Kashley- you described attunement perfectly. Attunement- Limbic Resonance- dydactic regulation, to me they are the same.

Kashley- beautiful!! I don’t think Carl Rogers could have said it better himself!

I was browsing the psychology section at the bookstore last night, and I picked a book called On Being a Therapist by Jeffery A. Kottler. I was just browsing through the book and I found this:

It is sometimes surprising to realize the ways that doing therapy produces an altered state of consciousness not only in our clients but also in us. When things are really moving along well, when concentration and connection are at their peak, we may experience a kind of synesthesia, or second sight, in which a state of hyper arousal leads to greater intensity of our awareness. We are able to only to hear and see, with exquisite sensitivity, what is going in the situation and within the other person but also to transcend the ordinary senses to achieve greater clarity. This is not unlike what Keeney (2003) describes happening with the Bushman healers of the Kalahari in Namibia. They speak of being able to develop “second eyes” in which they can actually see sickness in others, as well as smell and taste it. During those times when empathy is at its peak, when we have entered the trance-like state of total immersion in the relationship and concentration in the conversation, when we can almost read the client’s mind and anticipate what he will think, feel, say, and do next, there is a similar synthesis of perception. Pg. 4-5

I thought this was a beautiful explanation of altered states, and I was so surprised when I found it just flipping through a random book!