Great Starter River! And not just because you used my favorite quote.

Based on where I am at in my therapy relationship, and what I feel and know to be true in my experience with my T, and most certainly understand from this book, I give a propounding yes.

On page 144 of the book the author describes the force of what is called limbic Attractors (in this case between client and therapist) and its ability to write permanent change into the brain. “In a relationship, one mind revises another; one heart changes its partner. This astounding legacy of…neural beings is limbic revision: the power to remodel the emotional parts of the people we love…Who we are and who become depends, in part on whom we love.”

There are different types of love that qualify and sometimes overlap in certain relationships. There is familial love, friendship love, romantic love, and love based on principle. I believe that the latter well suits the scope of love found in our therapeutic relationships with our T’s. I am at ease now that I actually believe that my T does have affection for me. She has demonstrated it over the years and I have questioned it, tested it in every way possible-as many of you have done the same, and the proof is, yes, she loves me. But it is necessary at the same time to be careful not to misunderstand that love, the basis of that love, and its intrinsic boundaries. Would I expect to hear her say that she loves me? No, for she would likely fear my interpretation of that statement. Might I one day express it to her if appropriate? Maybe, but only if appropriate.

I think in order to be in their profession there has to be an immense love for people in general and that transcends into the individual relationships with their clients. The longer a client remains in therapy, the more they see their client over come, the more a love will abound just as it does on the client’s part. I agree that a year, maybe two ½ years ago for me, I would have stated the same as River. I know absolutely nothing about this woman, that’s not love. But now with all that I have come to know to be true. Yes, I know that I do and I have every reason to love her as much as to trust her. But all within the boundaries that I enjoy.

What if your T told you he/she loved you? (Like we've been discussing, not romantically of course.) How would you feel? What would you think? How would you react?

I think I'd have to actually be “there” and see how I respond in that moment. I really don’t know how I’d react. I think I’d cry. No, I know that I would cry. I know from her it would come in the purest of form so I know I would not worry about intent. But still, it seems weird from this angle w/o any relative knowledge as to why she would express that. I’d probably have to ask her if she loves me and even then, I am inclined to believe she would turn it into a question of what do I believe and why I believe that. Then again, she may surprise me and just say “yes, of course I do.” Actually, knowing my T it would probably be in the tune of more a sarcastic banter.

BTW: I read those 2 excerpts from the book (pg 144, & 170) to my T yesterday and she really liked it. She wrote down the title of the book as if she intended to get a copy for herself. I told her I was finished with it if she wants to borrow it. She said that’d be great for when she goes on that long plane ride in 2 weeks. So I am excited that she is interested in reading it. –just a side note.

My dream this morning was about my T. I rarely dream about her so when it happens it makes me curious. I won't go into boring details because they won't mean anything to anyone else but essentially, she and I were shopping together at a fair/farmer's market type place, and even though I was happy and excited to be doing this with her I was also anxious because I didn't know why we were doing this or how I should act.

So, it occurred to me that this would probably be my reaction. I'd be happy and excited but also a little worried if I am hearing anything different in the words than she means to communicate. I guess the word "love" itself can mean so many things that I don't always know what it means.

As for what the dream, I can't attach it to any context in my life presently except maybe how I felt Friday after my session. Of course anytime I tell my T about a dream her favorite thing to do is to see if I can understand the dream through seeing all of the players as different parts of myself. When I think of it that way I wonder if it is about me and Little Sister spending more time together lately. (Sorry for the tangent.)

I dream about my T a lot. Maybe this is one way of keeping them close to us at all times.

When I fantasize about doing things w/ my T there is an element of knowing that it would be awkward if played out in reality. Such as meeting her for lunch or shopping together: Like I’d be wondering, “Ok what do we talk about when we’re not just talking about me and you can’t get too personal because that would alter the whole axis of our relationship.”

On the other hand sometimes when I am running I can imagine her running beside me and that feels more comfortable since there doesn’t have to be a conversational flow. We’re just together. And running is something that we happen to have in common.

I hope it is ok if I pose a question and thought for our book discussion:

Q: What did you find most fascinating or surprising about this book?

I appreciate learning “how things work.” I’ve known of synapses and how they occur, but the depth of the neurobiological network was explained with such simplicity and ease. It was very interesting in chpt. 6 “A Bend in the Road” how the authors graphed out how neural linkages are made. And I could easily relate to the patient who would experience any minor set back and ruminate for days whereas most people may consider it for a few minutes and it dwindles.

Understanding that our filters are so fogged that our brain sees (H) even though (A) was presented, is profound and their explanation of this process is brilliantly simple. Our brain finds the common dual vertical pillars and crossbar and washes out individual elements and seductively spins backward from the new and actual input to what we’ve known. What we have experienced (H) methodically re-wires the brain and the nature of what it has seen (A) dictates what it can see (H).

I don’t know how well this translates w/o the graphs for those who have not read the book, but I hope it does make some sense at least.

That is mind blowing, I absoultely agree.

I can’t help but to reflect on my favorite poem when I recall the poetic nature of this book. If I remember correctly, they quoted 2 poems by ee cummings. But this is one that they did not quote, but would fit perfectly into the theme of love we’ve been discussing:

i carry your heart with me (i carry it in my heart) i am never without it (anywhere i go you go, my dear, and whatever is done by only me is your doing, my darling)

i fear no fate (for you are my fate, my sweet) i want no world (for beautiful you are my world, my true) and it’s you are whatever a moon has always meant and whatever a sun will always sing is you

here is the deepest secret nobody knows (here is the root of the root and the bud of the bud and the sky of the sky of a tree called life; which grows higher than the soul can hope or mind can hide) and this is the wonder that’s keeping the stars apart

i carry your heart (i carry it in my heart)

e. e. cummings

One of the things I found really fascinating and comforting (and scary) is this:

"A patient doesn't become generically healthier; he becomes more like the therapist...That makes selecting one's therapist a life decision with (in mild terms) extensive repercussions...The person of the therapist will determine the shape of the new world a patient is bound for; the configuration of his his limbic Attractors fixes those of the other."

This is fascinating in that it is so simple yet there is so much academia around psychology research, theory and technique and how it can help or hurt people.

What I find comforting about it is that this means my T has already done half of the work and I just have to soak it in (which is easier said than done). There is a lot of emphasis in our culture on individuality and being your own person. There are very few opportunities to absorb the hard earned wisdom & talents of others through mentoring or apprenticeships. This seems a much more effective way of learning and growing which I guess is why the focus of all of my transference reactions (is reactions the right word here?) have been towards mentor-types. I find myself looking up to these women and wishing I were more like them. So knowing that this is actually what is happening in therapy is very encouraging for me.

Of course the flip side of this is very scary. We are really trusting that our therapists are truly father down the path than us and that they have done their own work in therapy.

How do you feel about your therapist determining the shape of your the new world?

quote:

Originally posted by River:
How do you feel about your therapist determining the shape of your the new world?

I am absolutely fond of the idea. My T is an excellent role model for me. My mother was prone to depression and self neglect. My T is all about maintaining good health and exercise, and even participates in triathlons. I am glad that I found my T and I intend to absorb as much of her as possible.

Funny thing: my T hasn't read this book either. Maybe we should start calling around to the different psych schools and let them know that this book should be on their recommended reading list.

there's another book we know of called 'The Five Love Languages". It's from a Christian perspective but relevent to those who aren't Christians also. The idea is that we express love in 5 ways, and 1 of those 5 ways is our perferable way of receiving love. Those are:
1. words of praise
2. gifts
3. touch
4. time spent together
5. hrm...

ok, can't remember the last one but you get the idea right?

Robin

Hi Robin,

Sounds like another good book. I would like to look into it. -Thanks for sharing!

JM