quote:

but I have decided that I will see the new T and I am going to Exercise, Tan, Tone and dress to kill!!!...I will show him...when we pass in the office..."AND WE WILL PASS IN THE OFFICE"!!!! if he did have any thoughts of transference with me....He will have a hard time dealing with this too!! ....I just feel mean today...

LOL! I can certainly understand why you feel this way. My experience with transference is that it is one of the strongest and most intense feelings/experiences one can ever imagine x 10. I can only imagine that having to terminate a realionship w/ T because of it would be the most heartbreaking experience ever x 100. So what I'm saying is that you do need to work through these feelings that your termination has triggered, and by the sound of your post Charlotte, I beleive you will and you will be just fine. And I hope that what you hear yourself saying is that you deserve better than how you initially perceived you were being treated! You go girl!

quote:

...But I need to do this for my self and as part of my healing...who knows...maybe my husband might notice me again!!!Charlotte

This is the truth behind the exterior, more painful and prominant feelings you describe above. It IS for you Charlotte. This is all for you! You'll work through all of these feelings and you will come off victorious. And don't you believe that is what your T really wants for you? I think so too.
JM

quote:

I have rambled on too long...but I have enjoyed getting some of this out of my head...sorta writers therapy I guess...Thanks for listening!!

I've described this forum like a talking journal. I find it very therapeutic sometimes. It is nice that your T will be supervising your progress under your new T. I think that speaks volumes to his care and concern for you Charlotte.

One more word about transference and it is strictly my opinion: But it seems that the intensity of emotions that come into play in its highly aroused state for a client experiencing it, can be very distracting to the real work at hand. If a client only focuses on the surface attraction to her T then she is missing the opportunity to work through the issues beneath the surface that trigger the transference in the first place. That s why it is necessary that a good T direct and guide a client to do that because we may be too inebriated w/ it ourselves, we are often filled with the compulsion to want to act out any given fantasies and feelings sparked by transference. (ie; rolling on the couch with them, meeting them after hours, so on and so forth whatever it may be). When a client begins to behave so erratically that the T can no longer control a situation in the clients best interest, or if his/her own issues or counter-transference get IN THE WAY then it is very responsible for them to terminate and refer to another T who may be better equipped to deal with the particular issues the client needs to work through. If a T fails to do that the transference no longer is a useful tool in therapy but a barrier to it, and becomes a tool to use in their own personal agenda.

“To whom much is given much is expected.”

Just my thoughts.

quote:

I wonder if the therapists that are psychologists have experience to deal with transference or countertransference.

Hi SimplyMe,

My T is not a “psychologist”, but a LMFT who also provides individual therapy and is adequately trained and experienced in dealing with transference. What separates a T from handling it properly whether experienced w/ it or not is the humility to accept whatever their own limitations might be and how their own issues come into play, and their willingness to seek supervision.

JM

quote:

My T did not terminate me as a patient - I decided that I needed to talk to someone else. I have to also wonder how many other women patients my t has had feelings for in the past. Things that make you go hmm....

SimplyMe,
I really applaud you for that. It would have been so easy to just throw caution to the wind. It is interesting that you wonder how many other women patients he may have had "feelings for." If that is true then it demonstrates that he has not worked out his own issues.

That brings me to comment on something else you said about "giving him credit for not lying to you." I suppose we should give credit where credit is due, but don't we all expect that our T's would not lie to us? The idea evades me as to why he allowed himself to experience these feelings for you 'over time' instead of taking the proactive approach himself as the professional. Let me say again that you at least handled that really well. Not to belittle the man in any way, mind you. I know very little and almost nothing about the whole of the circumstances and I am in no position to judge another, but I am commenting on only what you've slightly revealed.

JM

How do you know if your attraction to your t is transference or not?

Of course, no one wants their t's to lie to them. He could have told me that "no, he didn't have feelings for me" when in reality he does, so that I would continue to see him. So in effect he would have had a motive to not tell me the truth. Does that make sense?

As far as wondering if he has had feelings for other patients, I just am curious as to the answer to that. I will admit that ever since he told me how he felt about me my feelings for him are not that strong anymore. There are a lot of fish in the sea and I still have a lot of fishing to do!

quote:

How do you know if your attraction to your t is transference or not?

That’s a good question SimplyMe.

The fact that it did occur in a therapeutic setting would give a strong indication as to that it is transference. But on the other hand transference is not just something we experience in professional relationships therefore its role in many of our relationships cannot be overlooked.

For instance, we may experience transference for friends, spouses, teachers, boss, and other authority figures, just to name a few. The role of transference is that it identifies us or connects us to someone in our present through our past experiences. If someone fits the pattern we have come to know from our past experiences then they may take on transference like role in our lives which is completely normal and even scientific. (Limbic Attractors)

In therapy however we cannot know enough personal information about our T’s to provide these connections and we have to rely on projected information that we gain. Transference based on very little information is strictly transference, but the emotions are very real and the relationships DOES in fact become very real too, but within its boundaries. Once it is taken outside those boundaries it becomes prone to all the added conflicts of every other relationship we’ve ever experienced, and possibly worse.

Hmm..Sorry for the long winded reply to a seemingly simple question, but it IS a really good question.

One suggestion is that you might enjoy reading the book “A General Theory of Love” by Thomas Lewis. There just happens to be a post on that on forum too.

JM

quote:

He could have told me that "no, he didn't have feelings for me" when in reality he does, so that I would continue to see him. So in effect he would have had a motive to not tell me the truth. Does that make sense?

No one's debating that. But he did refrain from telling you until you brought up the "proverbial elephant in the room." But I don't know how long he had these feelings for you and if he was seeking consultation from a supervisor for them. One would certainly hope so.

Hi SimplyMe,
Now I get it, I'm sorry, I didn't realize that you asked him or that you were the one who decided to terminate. Both very courageous acts by the way. And I agree with you, that he shouldn't have lied to you. As JM mentioned, if there's one thing you should be able to count on your T for its not to lie to you.

AG

Charlotte,
Please do not worry that you're talking too much, that's what we're here for. And I know you feel confused and overwhelmed but you're dealing with this great. It's really difficult to have your T send you to someone else, but I agree with everyone else. I really believe that he cares for you and what's best for you so he's sending you to someone that he thinks will be more effective in helping you but he's also doing it without dissappearing from your life.

And you're impulse to take care of yourself, instead of punishing yourself for something that was not your fault, is a good one. Go with it, you deserve to be taken good care of.

And for what it's worth, my husband and I had been married for 21 years when we started marital counseling with my T and I thought we had a snowball's chance in a pizza oven to actually pulling through. I thought it was over and was just giving it one last shot so I could leave with a clear conscience. And things are so much better now that I'm really glad that I was able to stick it out. So there's hope.

AG

Hey everyone,
I promised to let you know what happened in session with my new Ms. T. Plus I didnt want JM tracking me down with the beagles!! LOL

Well, I made it a point to ge there 10 minutes early so I could catch a glimpse of Mr. T, which BTW I did, and he seemed to be as anxious to see me as I him...or so I fantasise that he did...but I was really nervous and trying to look calm too. My new Ms. T seems very nice and very open about things, she knew I really did not care to see her and told me she knew that. She knew the feelings I had for him and told me she undestood that too...I told her exactly how I had felt about the whole thing and that I was hurt, mad, upset, and devestated at the whole thing...as we talked I told her that one thing that I really needed was to be able to see him for a few minutes once every once in a while to discuss my progress with him, She said she would ask if I could show positive progress in my work for my feelings for him...I told her I was upset that I had called him twice and he hadn't called me back...she told me he told her I had called and to explain that it was best right now that he didn't.

I told her I was afraid to open up to her because when i opened up to him he kicked me to the curb..I told her I had a terrible time last week and felt like I could have ended it all for the first 24 hours......and it wasn't fair I had to go thru all that and he didn't have to suffer at all..because he didn't care...That's when she told me she had something that I really needed to hear. She said that "he" had come to her and talked to her for "several hours" about my case and the things we had worked on...and he was very concerned for me and was very strong in the fact that I get thru this and supervise the work, because he cared very much that I respected his work and trusted him enough to have the feelings that I had for him in the first place, and that he did not want me to have to go thru this alone. He also told her that he was amazed at the strength I had and the initative I took to tell him how I really felt, because most women do not, the therapist has to point it out of them. This made me feel a little better.

Anyway we talked mainly about my feelings about the whole thing and she was very kind and told me she didn't blame me for the things I felt and that she would probably felt the same. I told her that even though I had been thru heck and half of Georgia these last few months that I am not a quitter, and I would survive...now I just gotta keep telling myself that!! She told me my homework for next week is to write "HIM" a letter. A letter telling hime everything I wanted to say to him, good and bad...express my feelings that I never got to tell him, and to let him know how he had helped me too...I don't have to give it to him or her but I can if I want to...I been thinking about wahat to say...but really don't know where to begin...I'll thimk about that tomorrow!!..but that's pretty much how it went...and I cried alot...and had 2 milkshakes on the way home...it felt good...so I skipped supper tonight...talk to you soon...and thanks for the responses keep themem coming...I need it and love the support!!...Charlotte

Charlotte it sounds like your new T is going to work out good for you. And how wonderful that she could validate that "MR T" really does care for you for spending hours talking to her about your case and how they could best help YOU through this. I am excited for you!

Thanks for sharing.

Sorry about the beagles, but they ARE excellent trackers. LOL

JM

Transference: My own revelations and my need to understand it.

I hope you guys don’t mind some more of my personal musings and my own interpretation of what I’ve learned so far. I hope that others find it interesting and maybe even helpful.

Our relationship with our T is very intimate. Possibly the most intimate relationship we will ever know in its truest, purest form, allowing us to experience complete, unselfish attention and care from another human being. In order to solidify this acutely unique experience, it has to remain undefiled by someone else’s needs which would exclude entering into the often desired dual relationship (friendship, romantic or otherwise) and the even more detrimental breech of sexual consummation, which in a therapeutic relationship is as aberrant as incest.

So why do we get these feelings?
I initially experienced erotic transference for my T in the beginning of my therapy, but then it gradually shifted into a very strong maternal connection wherein my attachment to my T became very intense. In this attachment I found a security I had never known before and I began to flourish and make great strides in my healing process. Then about a week ago something triggered the homo-erotic transference again which made me wonder; is “transference just transference” that manifests itself in different degrees (i.e.; erotic/homo-erotic, maternal/ paternal etc.) or does how it manifests itself tell us something more peculiar?

My T explained it to me this way; “Sexual transference represents our desiring “equitableness” in our intimacy. To be sexual with someone is a complete surrendering of “both souls,” to be as important, special, and desirable to our partner as they are to us.”

Wherein, our T’s surrender virtually nothing about themselves and their personal lives to us. By virtue of its design our therapeutic relationship offers a safe environment for us to explore our own feelings and needs w/o it being skewed by someone else’s. Therefore indentifying “what triggers” an intense transference (sexual, maternal, or otherwise) for our T we can better understand something about ourselves, something about our past that is begging to be heard.

Most recently for me it was this;
I never feel like I fit in. Even though I have many friends I never feel important to them no matter how much the evidence contradicts that belief. REASON: Very complex, but simply stated; my whole life I felt excluded with no sense of belonging, especially as a child and that is a very painful recollection for me. So in come the fantasies (we ) create to feel better about ourselves. We all do it; we’ve always done it in one way or another. My sexual desire for my T represents my desire of sharing and receiving complete equality with absolutely no exclusion from her life (and body.) The desire to belong to her and that I can be made to feel good and make someone else feel good in return, to feel needed and desired by someone so important, is a very strong, intoxicating urge for me. On the other hand, the feeling of being excluded from her personal life can feel like stone cold rejection. Now the cycle begins and I therefore, by sub-consciously creating sexual intimacy with her, provide a sense of belonging and inclusion to help deal with the “feelings” of rejection. Out of habit, I repeat this pattern by fantasizing about something I can’t have with my T, but have always desired in life...complete acceptance for who I am and that what I have to offer is valuable to someone else. Truly, erotic transference is much more innocent than the “fantasized” sexual encounter would seem to entail.


It is not wrong to have erotic or homo-erotic transference for a T, but it is essential to know that it needs to become a tool and not an obsession. Getting “stuck” in this transference is obsessing on something that is never going to happen. It can’t happen. Obsession is an addiction just as much as alcohol and drugs, but addictions hinder progress. Ignoring the triggers of our painful past by getting caught up in the feel good, pleasure seeking; stimulating fantasies w/o addressing the cause is repeating the same hurtful patterns that have failed us in the past. Remaining in the erotic/homo-erotic stages of transference may also be a means to avoid dealing with the painful issues hidden beneath the surface of transference. To allow ourselves to work though the varying stages of transference; the magnetic pull of erotic transference, through a more maternal/paternal transference, leads us to an ultimate “secure attachment base.” Secure attachment is the doorway to the other side of transference and what I hope to find there is self love.

It is interesting that I made a statement to my T about a month ago that was something to this effect; “I like being here. I feel really good here.”

She replied, “Good! Because HERE it is all about YOU! You like being heard and that says you like something about yourself and that you’re becoming comfortable talking about your needs.”

–hmm…I wonder what she meant by that?

JM,
What you have written really resonates with me and my experience with transference. When the feelings are intense and I work them through they invariably link to my past. And all of the reasons you discussed for the intense longings ring really true to me. I know I move in and out of the erotic feelings. Most often my feelings are paternal. I think I have longed more to be my Ts daughter or grandaughter then I have longed to be a lover, but all have in common that I want to "belong" to him in some way.

Usually when the erotic feelings are strong, its a sign something difficult is coming. I think I use the fantasy to try and avoid the pain underneath. So I absolutely think you hit the nail on the head when you said the transference needs to become a tool. I can truly say that most of the progress I have made with my current T has taken place by working through transference feelings not concentrating on acting them out.

I know I have really been struggling in the erotic deppartment myself lately, and when I started looking at it, it turned out to be due to some memories getting triggered that contain some very powerful feelings I need to acknowledge and process. At least I know what I'm talking about my next session.

Thanks for taking the time to share this. Transference can be so gonzo confusing as you experience it, and I think this is a very insightful explanation that will help anyone trying to deal with transference. You are a very wise woman and I appreciate your ability to keep pushing through to get at what's underneath and then being brave enough to talk about it here. Thank you.

AG

Hi JM,

I think your discussion of transference and your reasons are really powerful for you and for others. It resonates with me a lot particularly in the feeling that there was no sense of belonging in your childhood. I haven't experienced erotic transference (yet?) but I definitely react to my T as a parental figure. Possibly because I have only been in therapy a short while (I never guessed I would call 7 months short) and I am only recently starting to trust T.

thank you for sharing,

Thanks gals. I wasn’t sure how it would be accepted. I was worried that it might be too self exposing for others to relate to or that it was in such essay form that I came off trying to teach everyone. I really just wanted to share because I find my own understanding in relating my experience.

I also think that we don’t have to experience erotic transference to get stuck in transference. But the mature subject matter certainly makes for an easy distraction. Oi vey!

As for the sense of belonging I agree that it does play into transference in every sense of the word. Maybe I’m stretching it, but I love to analyze things to death. So I was thinking when we were little we had no control over what happened to us. But in our search for belonging I think there is also a natural need for us to find a sense of equality, so as adults we want to play out the relationship on our terms and our fantasies, no matter what they are, provide opportunity for us to do this. On one hand, I want to be my T’s friend. On the other hand, there is a primal need to be taken care of, so at other times I want her to be my mother. That is one reason why I think that transference can sometimes be so confusing.

There is a reason that TRANSFERENCE is the most read and replied topic on the forum. To anyone out there…You ARE normal!

So, I'm not at a point where I have erotic transference with Tfella, though he's more than a wee bit paternal-feeling to me at the moment, as you might expect. But what really made me go off on my own thoughts in this post was when you said:

quote:

So in come the fantasies (we ) create to feel better about ourselves.

I wondered what it was that I fantasize about this way, and I realize that it's about protecting people. I always end up running through how to defend a particular place (with the particular people in it that live/work there) given various horrible happenings (and yes - you name it, I've made up a little fantasy about how to deal with it, any place that I live/work. Yes. Really. All of them. That too? Yup, that too. :P ). They're like little action-heroine vignettes, some of the time: where I successfully protect people, and myself, generally. Although I flatter myself that they're slightly more realistic and involve substantially more fire escape use than your average action movie.

So when you said:

quote:

Out of habit, I repeat this pattern by fantasizing about something I can’t have with my T, but have always desired in life...

I thought..."I wanted to be safe? To be able to protect people? Oh, yeah, I did. And I never got to be. Huh! That would explain all the... Huh!"

S'fascinating how the stuff that can be used to asplain t-relationships also accounts for so much of the rest of life interactions. I guess that's the point, right?

<----*takes baby steps* Thanks for sharing!

Right on Wynne!
Those fantasies are initially created in our childhood as a means to cope with the harsh circumstances of reality.

That is also hyper-vigilance when we are constantly prepared and preparing oursleves to survive danger and ever alert to it even when it is not a current threat. I find that very exhausting.

Hey everyone, I hope all is well with everyone..not much going on in this neck of the forum lately. Keep me in your mind tomorrow..I have my second session with Ms. T...I had to write a leter for homework to my old T...It really brings me into a tizzy when I start to express myself...but I will let you all know what happens tomorrow... AG where are you hiding?? Talk to you soon...Charlotte

Hi Charlotte,
I'm sorry! I totally zoned and missed your post on your first meeting with your new T. I work for a software company and we're trying to get out a Beta release and releases are when my work load gets the heaviest, I'm working OT right now and I'm afraid it has a tendency to cut into my surfing time. I'm trying to check in but I'm buzzing through. I'm sorry I didn't notice it sooner.

It sounds like you have two incredible Ts. I can only imagine how painful it was to feel like you spoke up about your feelings and were punished for it, but I hope that you were able to take in what your new T said. Someone discussing your case for hours, and expressing the kind of admiration he did for the work that you are doing is NOT someone who doesn't care. As painful as it was, he did something very loving in referring you to another T, he made sure that the highest priority was your healing. I really hope that will be a comfort to you as you go through this.

And I love that your new T could hear that you are unhappy having to go to her and totally get it and not make it about her. I know this had been painful and scary and difficult (well, we are talking about therapy, aren't we? ) but it really sounds like you are in good hands and have not one, but two, caring therapists on your side.

Keep talking about it here and I promise I'll try not to miss any more posts. But if I'm MIA over the next couple weeks, please know its my schedule and not a lack of care on my part. I think I'm understanding Robin/Scott/Samy/Antoni et al a little better right now.

AG

Hey everyone. I'm going to brain dump on my own transference situation (Dr.X, my medical doctor, not my T!) that is in the first thread for those who don't remember.

A few weeks ago I dreamt that we kissed. He ushered me into the house, past his wife, and into the back bedroom. He said, "My wife can't know about this. We will have to do this when she is not home or we will have to get one of those three hour hotel rooms." I said, "No, I don't do that." We went into another smaller, darkened room, he was in shadows. He picked me up, I could see his muscular arms as he picked me up and I thought, "I can't believe he is strong enough to pick me up!" along with, "I can't believe I am in this sexy man's arms!" He started to kiss me while holding me up, close mouthed, sort of politely at first and then right towards the end with tongue. I was thinking as he was kissing me that it wasn't doing anything for me and I felt sad about it, that I wasn't turned on. He put me down and walked away. I followed. We were in the driveway now, him sitting, and I was in the grass playing with his kids as he watched me, smiling.

This dream made me so happy. I woke up so happy that contact, physical contact had finally been made, even if it wasn't real. It made things feel in the past, like I could move on. But then a couple of weeks later I dreamt he called me and said I had cancer again and it had spread to my spine. This brought back a lot of feelings from when he first told me I had cancer and I have been basically depressed for the last four days since the dream.

Then today I was with a good friend who is aware of this situation and she asked me if I wanted to see where he lived. We were going for a walk nearby and she knows that I know where he lives, though I had never been there. I said yes so we drove by his house. And there it was. The life that I can never have with him. This made me sad. How could I have found someone who has tried to will my good, tried to protect me, expressed explicit caring for me, that I can never have? And why can't I just take that knowledge and feeling instead of driving it into the ground by obsessing about him? Am I trying to punish myself? Do I believe I do not deserve this without the inner emotional drama?

I could terminate him very easily but I fear it would do no good, that I would still obsess about him with no hope of seeing him ever again. And why would I want to walk away from someone who was so kind to me when I needed it the most, when everyone else had left me for dead emotionally? He is, of course, also my security blanket!

JM, you had a wonderful post on page 4, where you quoted your T as saying that the sexual transference is desiring equality. I love it. There has been that factor, but sometimes it is just that I want him to take me in, start me over so he can raise me and I can have a much better life because of it! I wish that I came from him. I can't express my emotions to people very well usually (it is what I grew up with) but I did to him and he didn't punish me for it. He validated me.

Gah, I'm stuck and I don't know what to do to get out!

Hi SprintingGal,
It is good to hear from you again, though I wish you were feeling better.
I know it can seem confusing sometimes to switch from a romantic or sexual fantasy, to wanting to be raised and nurtured by him. (Something we’ve sort of played out in the relationships we’ve chosen throughout our lives in one way or another.) I’m guessing that you’re probably feeling stuck because Dr. X does not have the ability to work you though your feelings the way that a T does. So I hope that you can learn to express your feelings to your T and she will make you feel as good as Dr. X and you will find acceptance and complete attunement with her too.

I apologize if my remarks seem blunt or striking the air, but I can’t really tell. I am hinging between feeling some very intense emotions and a little dissociation so I am kind of out of it lately. I am trying to keep up with everything going on here, but I am having a real hard time with that too, so I tend to be more quiet when I lose my ability for expression. But I wanted to make some reply.
JM

Hi Sprinting Gal,
I'm sorry its so difficult. This is a hard enough place to be in when you can work it through with the person which I realize isn't true in your case.

But if I may be so presumptious, I had an interesting take on your dream and I wanted to share my interpretation with you. BUT, and this is a big but, I'm basing this on what little I know of you from previous posts and my own experience so I could be completely off base. So if it rings true great, but if not, feel free to toss it out.

quote:

He started to kiss me while holding me up, close mouthed, sort of politely at first and then right towards the end with tongue. I was thinking as he was kissing me that it wasn't doing anything for me and I felt sad about it, that I wasn't turned on. He put me down and walked away. I followed. We were in the driveway now, him sitting, and I was in the grass playing with his kids as he watched me, smiling.

I think that when we have attachment issues, and we find someone who seems to hold out the promise of providing what is missing (because those needs never go away) it often manifests as a romantic/erotic interest because as adults those are our closest, most supportive relationships. The closet we can come to the boundaryless existence we once had with our mothers. But the truth is, that we're looking for what we didn't have then when we were children. I thought it was really interesting that you're dream started along the lines of a sexual relationship but even in the middle of that you were amazed he could pick you up. But if you were a little girl, he would be able to do that easily. You recognized that the relationship felt wrong because of his saying he had to keep it from his wife and you're saying you wouldn't go to a hotel. When you did kiss him, your reaction was that it really wasn't what you were looking for. But at the end you were with his children, playing with them and he was smiling at you. I think this speaks very strongly of you looking for the security and strong arms of a father who would be there for you, of you wanting to be part of his family.

I mentioned it in another post, but my T's granddaughter has a blog posted by her mother and had posted some stuff about holiday celebrations. I talked to my T about it. It was really painful in some ways because I had to deal with just how much I would have given to grown up in a family like my Ts and how much I just wanted to belong to him in any way possible: daughter, grandaughter, niece, you name it, just so I could have had a loving family where my needs were attended to.

If I'm right (and I must emphasize again how wrong I could be) then your desires for your doctor are pointing to deeper issues. The good news is that they are the kind of issues that you CAN deal with with your T. And by coming here.

AG

quote:

Originally posted by Attachment Girl:

I think that when we have attachment issues, and we find someone who seems to hold out the promise of providing what is missing (because those needs never go away) it often manifests as a romantic/erotic interest because as adults those are our closest, most supportive relationships. The closet we can come to the boundaryless existence we once had with our mothers. But the truth is, that we're looking for what we didn't have then when we were children. I thought it was really interesting that you're dream started along the lines of a sexual relationship but even in the middle of that you were amazed he could pick you up. But if you were a little girl, he would be able to do that easily. You recognized that the relationship felt wrong because of his saying he had to keep it from his wife and you're saying you wouldn't go to a hotel. When you did kiss him, your reaction was that it really wasn't what you were looking for. But at the end you were with his children, playing with them and he was smiling at you. I think this speaks very strongly of you looking for the security and strong arms of a father who would be there for you, of you wanting to be part of his family.

Wow. AG, what a wonderful interpretation. I burst into tears when I read it. Right on target, thank you!

I was thinking about my "men of transference past" last night and they all embodied something different that I missed in having a loving, involved dad. The professor tended to my intellect; he encouraged me, shared things with me from his discipline, and discussed various books and travel experiences with me. The boss and I were partners in crime, matching wit and making the other laugh in the process. And the doctor, who was at ground zero in the most frightening experience of my life, listened to me, validated me, cares about me, looks out for me, which are the most important things of all I think. He has tried to "will my good."

I'm to see my T today and I plan to discuss that dream with her (and others- my dreams have become very fertile ground lately). I know I miss the influence of a loving dad, I know the one I had abused me, was emotionally unavailable, and just a loser in about every way (there was very little to idolize) and I missed out on a lot. But now that I know that, how do I go forward without falling into the same trap over and over again? That is the key. It is what I need to figure out and hopefully my T can help lead me there.

SprintingGal

Sprinting Gal,
I'm so glad you found that helpful, I was hoping I was really not out in left field.

I think its great you're going to discuss your dreams with your T. Dreams have always been important to me in therapy and often the beginning of me dealing with a new issue starts with having a dream about it.

The key to not falling into the same trap again and again is to work through the feelings with your T. It may involve her becoming a secure base, it may involve you having to mourn and let go of the things that you didn't have but the end will result in being able to integrate the strength you need within yourself and be capable of forming interdepenent relationships where you can get your needs met. You'll stop being driven by an unconscious agenda. I think you're totally on the right track. Please let me know how your appt goes!

AG

I discussed the dream with T tonight. She interprets all of the images of our dreams as aspects of ourselves and said that Dr. X represents my own strength in carrying myself through this and everything else. The children represent the freedom that I never had. AG, I like your interpretation better as it meant more to me but I can see her point of view as well.

Tonight I made a real point to connect with my T. We talked about my relationship with my dad a lot and various events from my childhood. It made a difference. I feel good about the work we did tonight and I haven't felt that in a long time.

SprinterGal

SprintingGal,
I'm really glad that you are connecting with your T. The most important thing for our healing is having a good connection with our Ts. And I love those sessions where you walk out feeling like you did good work. Good for you! Enjoy the feeling, you really deserve it.

AG

HELLO EVERYONE, LONG TIME NO TALKY TO YOU ALL...BEEN DEALING WITH STUFF AND TRYING TO SURVIVE THE PRESENT!...HOPE YOU ALL HAVE A WONDERFUL THANKSGIVING! I AM THANKFUL FOR ALL MY NEW FRIENDS HERE ON THE FORUM...I DID NOT GET TO SEE MR.T YESTERDAY...IT MADE FOR A DEPRESSED EVENING...BUT MS.T WAS VERY UNDERSTANDING ABOUT THE WHOLE THING..SHE IS REALLY GOOD FOR ME!...PEACE OUT MY FRIENDS!!...TALK TO YOU SOON!...CHARLOTTE

Hi there

This is a first post but I've been reading this topic for a few weeks now and yes, you've guessed, I too have the dreaded transference!! This topic has helped me to understand a lot but this Transference is making me ill for the last 6 weeks with one thing after another. It feels like I'm cheating on my husband because I spend all my time thinking about when I'm going to see my T next and how I'm going to talk to him about it, whether or not he has feelings for me etc etc - all the good stuff you guys have been discussing. We've had one physical 'holding' and boy I didn't want to leave it at that. So I upped the courage to tell him a week later and now I can't get rid of my feelings for him and the only way I can describe it is torture.

Lady of Shallot

I totally understand what you are saying. I was thinking of my T all the time, dressing differently just to go to my session, and just wondering about her all the time. I was making good progress, I was more positive and was working through things. The problem was when I realized what was going on I sort of back pedalled and just shut down. I know I have to bring this up but I am a little scared about it.

I am glad you had the courage to mention it to your T, do you mind me asking how that worked out with him.

Kat

Lady of Shallot,
Welcome to the boards! As you've already figured out,you're not alone here, a lot of people completely understand how you feel. You're not cheating because you have feelings about your T,but I understand it can feel this way. My T is always telling me that instead of beating myself up for what my feelings are, that it might be better to examine the feelings to see how I'm reacting and what I'm reacting to.It's usually good advice. Its actually a healthy sign in therapy when you feel this way, that you're wanting connection. And it was very brave of you to tell him how you felt, and if I may echo Katskills, how did he respond?

AG

Kat and AG

Thanks for your interest. Well, as I expected, he wasn't surprised. You see, I have been away for a few weeks and for some of those I was unable to attend a session so we kept in touch by text and phone. This was a completely new departure and some of those texts included the word 'love' as did some of the phone conversations so I reckon this got the transference juices going and I began to fall.....anyway, we - or should I say I, are still skirting around it a little but at least it's out there. I could still $%^^ him in a heartbeat though given half the chance so I'm keeping my physical distance!!!

Lady

I uh... haven't actually felt _erotic_ transference to Tfella before. But um...just a question here. Does it ever feel _odd_ to feel this way about someone you don't know a thing about?

I ask because I find the amount of trust (paternal-style) I have in Tfella to be vaguely alarming, sometimes. So Lady of Shallot, when you and AG were talking about erotic transference and love, I was wondering. I mean, I know that's why this thread is called "transference" instead of "love and lust", but... it still brought it to mind. How do you deal with having these feelings and not knowing the people involved, really?

Any notions?

Wynne,
Hmmm...Does it feel odd to feel this way about my T? You bet. At first I was faced with the fact that I know absoultely nothing about this woman and yet I loved her. I have been very uncomfortable with my feelings toward her erotic and maternal. After all I'm not gay, and she is not my mother. It felt obsurd to say the least and I critisized myself for feeling this way. It took a _long_ time to come to terms with and accept my transference love for her, of which I _still_ struggle with.

I think I've said it before that when I am sitting there in her presence and I have all I can do to keep from climbing on her lap like the little child I feel like I am, it gets pretty uncomfortable. She's maybe 10 years older than me and I find no reason why I should feel such a maternal pull for her other than the trust and initmacy that comes with the territory. And to know so little about our T allows us to determine how they fulfill our "ideal" maternal or paternal needs. While they must offer some authenticity they need to leave enough for us to fill in the blanks, so to speak. So I'm not so sure if it is about "dealing" with it as much as it seems to be about just working with it and going with the flow.

Did that answer your question? Or did I totally miss it?

Wynne

I can answer that in a different sense than JM. I am gay and my T is a female. I am totally attracted to her even though she is not my type, at least what I thought was not my type. In session she did ask me what my type was and I did not have a direct answer. I went home to think about it, and alot of the qualities that I expressed were things that I see in her. Nothing shocking, just someone who is positive, caring, listens....hey is that not what we pay them for.

This is a problem for me, as I have pulled back in therapy because of these feelings. After making so much progress I stop myself.

Would I like to have a relationship with T. Sure I would like to ask her out for coffee, maybe go to a play or something. I am gay, she is straight...the boundaries, the conflict, the continuous problem.

Kat

quote:

Nothing shocking, just someone who is positive, caring, listens....hey is that not what we pay them for.

Yes, but I also believe it is a genuine quality they possess too. It is more than just a skill you know? When an occupation is an art it has to come from the heart.

I am sorry that you are feeling so much conflict right now, Kat. It does ease up though. What you have with your T sounds genuine.

Lady of Shallot,

(I love the name and the poem. Very fitting for the topic at hand I think )

I haven't experience erotic transference for my T but do have very strong feelings for her and I of course envy anyone who gets to spend more than 45min a week with her. I think about her a lot and wonder what her life is like. Anything that she says or does that feels like even the slightest rejection sends me into a complete tailspin. I have also experienced strong positive transference feelings for other women that I have worked for or have learned from. The feelings are very powerful, torturous, and confusing. They are real and they won't be denied. Over the last few months since I have talked to my T about it and have talked to others here I have been able to own my transference and know that though the feelings are real they are also not what they seem. It is my past intruding in on my present and it happens to everyone all of the time. The intensity of the therapeutic relationship is especially fertile ground for transference to happen.

Some therapists welcome it and know how to handle it and others don't. We have had people on these boards with both kinds. It seems the therapists who have experience & training in using transference do a much better job handling it. That is one question I would ask your T: "Have you successfully dealt with transference before?" If not, then get him and yourself educated about it. The therapist must know what boundaries to put in place and how to keep them there firmly so that you will not get hurt. The T must also know how to deal with their own transference issues and hopefully is or has been in therapy themselves. This is another good question to ask.

So, in order to not write a novella here about all of this I want to refer you to two great websites that talk about transference, countertransference and erotic transference. I have found these along with Shrinklady's info on the topic to be extremely helpful. There is information in these articles that you are unlikely to get directly from your T so reading up on it at least helps clear up some of the confusion. Here are the links:

Transference & Countertransference: A Common Sense Perspective

About erotic transference - #1 - Falling in love with the therapist

About erotic transference - #2 - Acting on erotic transference/ countertransference

Transference - by our own Shrinklady

River

Thanks for the references. My guy is very grounded and welcomes my feelings as I welcome the opportunity to be honest.

Lady
(yes, an appropriate moniker)

Ugh. I ran into Dr. X out in public this week. Need support!

I saw him first even though he was some distance away from me, then he saw me, stumbled, smiled, changed his posture, and put on his detached doctor face. I didn't smile and acted like I didn't care but a million feelings went through me: fear, excitement, lust, shame, embarrassment, and major vulnerability. I suddenly felt extremely exposed. We passed each other and he looked down at me somberly, saying, "How are you." We both kept going and I said, "Good" over my shoulder. Then I had the urge to run away as fast and as far as I could.

I talked to my T about it the day it happened but she didn't have much insight. She tells me that "it is like having a crush on a celebrity because you will never know him."